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Thread: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm claiming Clinton was more careful with his words. He made sure he didn't overstate too much. He said he was diminishing, making how much Saddam had or didn't have wasn't part of the claim. While this allows the audience to put whatever specifics they want to it, he would have much more deniablity than Bush had.
    That's really what you're gonig to go with?

    Anyway, Clinton said that Saddam had stockpiles of WMD. Saddam had WMD research and production facilities. He was going to bomb him in order to make the threat smaller then it was. Iin other words, it was a threat that was growing and getting bigger based on the administration's many statements of WMD research and production.

    So, I ask again, when Clinton made those statements, was he lying? I don't care whos lie you beleive to be more consequential. I couldn't care less about what you think either admin should have done about the perceived threat. Don't care which lie you belive had more specifics. I am simply asking, do you, Mr. Boo Radley, believe that Clniton lied when he made the statements?
    Last edited by buck; 11-01-10 at 04:24 PM.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    That's really what you're gonig to go with?

    Anyway, Clinton said that Saddam had stockpiles of WMD. Saddam had WMD research and production facilities. He was going to bomb him in order to make the threat smaller then it was. Iin other words, it was a threat that was growing and getting bigger based on the administration's many statements of WMD research and production.

    So, I ask again, when Clinton made those statements, was he lying? I don't care whos lie was more consequential. I couldn't care less about what you think either admin should have done about the perceived threat. I am simply asking, do you, Mr. Boo Radley, believe that Clniton lied when he made the statements?
    I don't recall that. Link that. And did he change that claim after the bombing?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't recall that. Link that. And did he change that claim after the bombing?
    One caveat, when i said CLinton said, I meant his administration - I apologize for my error. However, yes. Clinton's quotes are included:

    "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
    President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

    "Together we must also confront the new hazards of chemical and biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade, and much of his nation's wealth, not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them."
    President Clinton, Jan. 27, 1998.

    "Fateful decisions will be made in the days and weeks ahead. At issue is nothing less than the fundamental question of whether or not we can keep the most lethal weapons known to mankind out of the hands of an unreconstructed tyrant and aggressor who is in the same league as the most brutal dictators of this century."
    Sen. Joe Biden (D, DE), Feb. 12, 1998

    "It is essential that a dictator like Saddam not be allowed to evade international strictures and wield frightening weapons of mass destruction. As long as UNSCOM is prevented from carrying out its mission, the effort to monitor Iraqi compliance with Resolution 687 becomes a dangerous shell game. Neither the United States nor the global community can afford to allow Saddam Hussein to continue on this path."
    Sen. Tom Daschle (D, SD), Feb. 12, 1998

    "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
    Madeleine Albright, Feb. 18, 1998.

    "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
    Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb. 18, 1998.

    "We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
    Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.

    "As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
    Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

    "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
    Madeleine Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.
    Who cares wether or not they changed their opinion after the bombing. That doesn't even have anything to do with the conversation we were having. Just a little bit ago you claimed that all WMD's were destroyed after the first Gulf war. So, all of these statements made after the Gul war, but before Operation Desert Fox must be lies, no?

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    One caveat, when i said CLinton said, I meant his administration - I apologize for my error. However, yes. Clinton's quotes are included:



    Who cares wether or not they changed their opinion after the bombing. That doesn't even have anything to do with the conversation we were having. Just a little bit ago you claimed that all WMD's were destroyed after the first Gulf war. So, all of these statements made after the Gul war, but before Operation Desert Fox must be lies, no?
    It does matter if they chnaged their opinion, but I don't see the gorowing and gathering claim above. They say it is an issue, that over the decasdes he has done so. Again, very careful in what they are saying and not making the sweeping claim Bush made. And Bush made his claim years later, not only after the bombing, but after years of degrading brought on by sanctions and the inability to store such weapons.

    Again, not at all equal. Treating unequal things as if they were equal is the definition of bias.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    I think my point has been made. Anything more will just be beating a dead horse.

    Clinton lied and people died. Or at least for people that believe Bush lied and want to remain consistent - of which there are a lot of exmaples.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I think my point has been made. Anything more will just be beating a dead horse.

    Clinton lied and people died. Or at least for people that believe Bush lied and want to remain consistent - of which there are a lot of exmaples.
    You're point is based on two different and unequal things being seen as equal. I doubt that stands or is made. Nor do I see how it would excuse Bush in any way.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're point is based on two different and unequal things being seen as equal. I doubt that stands or is made. Nor do I see how it would excuse Bush in any way.
    I know.

    During the run up to Desert Fox, Clinton and his administration said Saddam has WMD and is developing/researching them. That, despite your claim that they had been destroyed prior to Desert Fox.

    That is completely different then what occured during the runup to the Iraq war.

    During the run up to Iraq war, Bush and his administration said Saddam has WMD and is developing/researching them. Again, that despite your claim that they had been destroyed prior to Desert Fox.

    I'm sure we can all see how one is a lie but the other is not.
    Last edited by buck; 11-02-10 at 02:05 PM.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I know.

    During the run up to Desert Fox, Clinton and his administration said Saddam has WMD and is developing/researching them. That, despite your claim that they had been destroyed prior to Desert Fox.

    That is completely different then what occured during the runup to the Iraq war.

    During the run up to Iraq war, Bush and his administration said Saddam has WMD and is developing/researching them. Again, that despite your claim that they had been destroyed prior to Desert Fox.

    I'm sure we can all see how one is a lie but the other is not.
    No, Bush's claim was more than he had them. More than researching them. That he had active programs, actively developing and stockpiling. There was no evidence to support that. None. You ahd to bring in the doubted intel in order to even pretend that was true.

    You simplfy to the point of being inaccurate. Clinton bomb and destroyed Saddam's capability, and thus eliminnated the possible threat (which is why I note that after is important). you compare unequal things and treat them as if there were equal. They are not.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, Bush's claim was more than he had them. More than researching them. That he had active programs, actively developing and stockpiling.
    but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them.- Bill Clinton

    You simplfy to the point of being inaccurate. Clinton bomb and destroyed Saddam's capability, and thus eliminnated the possible threat
    "I don't think we're pretending that we can get everything, so this is - I think - we are being very honest about what our ability is. We are lessening, degrading his ability to use this. - Albright

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them.- Bill Clinton
    Was he at that time? I don't know. I do know he wasn't in 2003.

    "I don't think we're pretending that we can get everything, so this is - I think - we are being very honest about what our ability is. We are lessening, degrading his ability to use this. - Albright
    Again, not a claim of growing and gathering. But clear that he was hindered. You have not shown the same level of dishonesty or the same situation, the same knowledge level. You instead start with the assumption everything is the same when the evidence doesn't support that assumption. Two different times, with different circumstances, and one after bombing to hinder him, cause the declaration that the threat was diminished.

    Treat unequal things as equal is the definition of bias.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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