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O'Donnel, Coons live debate thread

Nothing at all socialist about govt run health insurance

I'm sorry?

Do you want to show me where the government bought out Private Health Insurers?

Oh wait the government didn't do that... they just directed Health Insurers to do certain things. (some things you should be happy about btw)

govt run auto industry,

So Obama is telling GM what to build?

govt run banks, .... Nope, nothing socialist going on there.

Yep. The government had so much power over the banks, they managed to stop those lovely bonuses... oh wait :)
 
Exactly!

And for the record, I'm not saying capitalism is bad. Far from it. I am, however, saying that where the free market system falls short, government must step in to fill the void but it must do so properly. Part of "doing it right" means giving much of the responsibility to the States to manage such programs where practical. The States, in turn, must then manage these programs in ways that not only upfilt their residences from poverty, turmoil and dispair, but also empowers them to move up to that next rung in the social-economic landscape. To do less is to hold an individual, a People, a disporportioned segment of society as a whole down and makes them co-dependent on "the system" - a system that reels "them" in on one side but condemns them on the other. Hence, "class warfare" is what we achieve instead of mitigating it as much as possible.

Sidenote: Sorry for hihacking the thread. Didn't mean to turn this into another debate on the validity of government run social programs. But the question was asked and I felt compelled to try and answer fairly.

No problem with me. I think you answered it well.
 
I'm sorry?

Do you want to show me where the government bought out Private Health Insurers?

Oh wait the government didn't do that... they just directed Health Insurers to do certain things. (some things you should be happy about btw)



So Obama is telling GM what to build?



Yep. The government had so much power over the banks, they managed to stop those lovely bonuses... oh wait :)

As I keep saying, misinformation dies a hard, hard death, if at all. What you responded to shows this well. And the facts will mean little in the debate, sadly.
 
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As I keep saying, misinformation deis a hard, hard death, if at all. What you responded to shows this well. And the facts will mean little in the debate, sadly.

Well aware lol!

I have some breath to waste today... :2razz:
 
I'm sorry?

Do you want to show me where the government bought out Private Health Insurers?

Oh wait the government didn't do that... they just directed Health Insurers to do certain things. (some things you should be happy about btw)



So Obama is telling GM what to build?



Yep. The government had so much power over the banks, they managed to stop those lovely bonuses... oh wait :)

Hannity et al told these people that regulation is socialism, so that is now their reality. There's a law that says I can't dump uranium waste from a nuke plant into rivers or elementary school playgrounds. Socialized electricity! There's a regulation that says I need to have a 30 minute fuel reserve when I fly a plane. The government runs my plane! Another law says I can't buy alcohol on a Sunday in this state. Government liquor stores!

Attention, morons:
1) Funneling tax dollars into the hands of private companies is not socialism. It is, in fact, pretty much the opposite of socialism.
2) Regulation is not ownership. Every industry has regulations. Does the government run your business?
 
That really isn't that uncommon aomng the tea party membership as best I can tell. It has ebcome a gereat catch phrase for them, but few actually seme to understand what is in the Consititution.




any evidence of this or are you just smearing us as usual.


I'd put my understanding up to yours any day hero.
 
any evidence of this or are you just smearing us as usual.


I'd put my understanding up to yours any day hero.

Just listen to them. You have O'Donell up above.

However:

It is, of course, hard to say anything definitive about the Tea Party movement, a loose confederation of groups with no central leadership. But if there is a central theme to its understanding of the Constitution, it is that the nation’s founders knew what they were doing and that their work must be protected. “I think it’s some loose, ill-informed version of originalism, but it’s plausible,” said Professor Kramer, the author of “The People Themselves: Popular Constitutionalism and Judicial Review.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/weekinreview/14liptak.html

But the reality is that Tea Partiers engage with the Constitution in such a selective manner, and for such nakedly political purposes, that they’re clearly relying on it more as an instrument of self-affirmation and cultural division than a source of policy inspiration.

(snip)

In recent months, Tea Party candidates have behaved in ways that belie their public commitment to combating progressivism. They’ve backed measures that blatantly contradict their originalist mission. And they’ve frequently misunderstood or misrepresented the Constitution itself. In May, for example, Paul told a Russian television station that America “should stop” automatically granting citizenship to the native-born children of illegal immigrants. Turns out his suggestion would be unconstitutional, at least according to the 14th Amendment (1868) and a pair of subsequent Supreme Court decisions. A few weeks later, Paul said he’d like to prevent federal contractors from lobbying Congress—a likely violation of their First Amendment right to redress. In July, Alaska’s Miller told ABC News that unemployment benefits are not “constitutionally authorized.” Reports later revealed that his wife claimed unemployment in 2002.

(Snip)

The Tea Partiers are right to revere the Constitution. It’s a remarkable, even miraculous document. But there are many Constitutions: the Constitution of 1789, of 1864, of 1925, of 1936, of 1970, of today. Where O’Donnell & Co. go wrong is in insisting that their idealized document is the country’s one true Constitution, and that dissenters are somehow un-American. By putting the Constitution front and center, the Tea Party has reinvigorated a long-simmering argument over who we are and who we want to be. That’s great. But to truly honor the Founders’ spirit, they have to make room for actual debate. As usual, Thomas Jefferson put it best. In a letter to a friend in 1816, he mocked “men [who] look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the arc of the covenant, too sacred to be touched”; “who ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment.” “Let us follow no such examples, nor weakly believe that one generation is not as capable as another of taking care of itself, and of ordering its own affairs,” he concluded. “Each generation is as independent as the one preceding, as that was of all which had gone before.” Amen.

How Tea Partiers Get the Constitution Wrong - Newsweek

I'm sure you can do your own search for more. ;)
 
We have to get BACK to the CONSTITUTION-BASED GOVERNMENT!*

*Except for the 14th, 16th, and 17th amendments. I don't like those so we should repeal them. Also we need to add one that says "No Homos"
 
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