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So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

A MUST READ. Don't even read the opinions. Look at the empirical facts. Look at the numbers and tell me Pelosi did all this....

So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

Here's a short paragraph to give you an idea what economist/professor/pulitzer prize winner David Cay Johnston concludes of the Bush tax cuts.

"The tax cuts did not spur investment. Job growth in the George W. Bush years was one-seventh that of the Clinton years. Nixon and Ford did better than Bush on jobs. Wages fell during the last administration. Average incomes fell. The number of Americans in poverty, as officially measured, hit a 16-year high last year of 43.6 million, though a National Academy of Sciences study says that the real poverty figure is closer to 51 million. Food banks are swamped. Foreclosure signs are everywhere. Americans and their governments are drowning in debt. And at the nexus of tax and healthcare, Republican ideas perpetuate a cruel and immoral system that rations healthcare -- while consuming every sixth dollar in the economy and making businesses, especially small businesses, less efficient and less profitable."

Obama's fault what?

I know, we need to increase taxes for cryin out loud so the government can create more government jobs to spur on our economic growth. Tax cuts are a bad thing. BAD! BAD! BAD!
 
I know, we need to increase taxes for cryin out loud so the government can create more government jobs to spur on our economic growth. Tax cuts are a bad thing. BAD! BAD! BAD!

we have to tax our way to prosperity
 
wrong-dem voters-the ones who outsource personal responsibility to the government. the people who think they are poor not because they are untalented or unproductive but because they got "Screwed" by wall street. A girl I used to date-saw her for the first time since I left grad school a few years ago. She had earned an MBA and JD at a top program. At my 25th college reunion she showed up (85 degree weather-typical New Haven on Memorial day) in a business suit, heels, hose, silk blouse etc while the rest of us were wearing t-shirts and shorts. She was a senior VP and Goldman -Sachs and by then had two children. She noted she might have to catch the late train back to the city to work on some stuff that Friday night. She also noted she was not working as many hours as she had before she had children-down to about 55-60 a week. Yeah she made alot of money. easily a million with bonuses. She told me the sort of hours she had put in for the 20 years since I had least seen her. She noted people like her -with three Ivy honors+ degrees working 70 hours a week, delaying having a family etc-were common in her business.

its fashionable to bash "wall street" and the Ivan Boeskies etc of the world. It soothes the hurt of people who couldn't imagine working as hard as people like this woman. But the fact remains, most of those people are extremely talented, very dedicated honest people who work their asses off for what they earn

I am bashing wall street for running to the government for bailout after bail out

Crying to big daddy government to save them from their own stupidity

First you had LCTM which the fed had to help with sorting out the mess. Then the government helped walll street in reducing regulations during the late 90s, and lowered enforcement on the ones it did keep in the 2000s. So when push came to shove you had the fed and the federal government bailing out wall street to the tune of a couple trillion (AIG was a back door bailout). Wallstreet is no better then a bunch of moronic gamblers who rely on government aid when they spend their paycheck on a hot tip at the track.

They might work alot of hours, but their running to the government for aid makes then no better then a bunch of welfare cheats
 
I am bashing wall street for running to the government for bailout after bail out

Crying to big daddy government to save them from their own stupidity

First you had LCTM which the fed had to help with sorting out the mess. Then the government helped walll street in reducing regulations during the late 90s, and lowered enforcement on the ones it did keep in the 2000s. So when push came to shove you had the fed and the federal government bailing out wall street to the tune of a couple trillion (AIG was a back door bailout). Wallstreet is no better then a bunch of moronic gamblers who rely on government aid when they spend their paycheck on a hot tip at the track.

They might work alot of hours, but their running to the government for aid makes then no better then a bunch of welfare cheats

1) who do you find on this board supporting the bail outs

2) what presidential candidate got most of the wall street support

3) what administration has a bunch of wall street fat cats in positions of power
 
You don't seem to have a problem with a 6 figure retirement.

No, but you do....there is class envy, and then there is good retirement envy....
I certainly appreciate you working stiffs paying your taxes and SS, so I can draw retirements from the Navy, from SS, and from 2 employers. I hear that the drilling moratorium has been lifted, does that mean you can go back to work?:2razz:
 
1) who do you find on this board supporting the bail outs
Never said you did, but you certainly dont seem to feel it was corporate welfare or that it is as bad or actually worse then normal welfare, afterall they are people who are paid large amounts to know better
2) what presidential candidate got most of the wall street support
Doesnt really matter they went with who they thought was going to win, I expect democrats and Obama to get vastly lower amounts next year
3) what administration has a bunch of wall street fat cats in positions of power
The Bush admin, the obama admin, both had/have plenty of ex Goldman Sach people in admin positions (Paulson ring a bell as Teas sec under Bush). Realistically McCain would not have been any harder on Wall Street then Obama and most likely would have not wanted to reform the regulatory system that does need to change
 
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1) who do you find on this board supporting the bail outs

Anyone smart enough to realize that they actually like their retirement funds.

2) what presidential candidate got most of the wall street support

Considering the timeframe, probably Bush. Between two Presidential elections not to mention Governor runs (consider his father and grandfather), it's likely he got more. Not that it really matters though.

3) what administration has a bunch of wall street fat cats in positions of power

I'd like you to meet Henry Paulson, John W. Snow and Paul O'Neill.

My, how short peoples' memories are.
 
we have to tax our way to prosperity

Before we do that let's make sure that gays can openly serve in the military and allot some funds to teach our military to be sympathetic and understanding to the special needs of this brutally oppressed minority. Let's bring the "criminals" or misguided youth from Cuba to New York...hardly can call them criminals with the USA's policies being the real culprit. Then we can create more pant****ting initiatives to tax our way to prosperity. Save us Obama!
 
a funny comment from those who spend so much time arguing in favor of confiscatory tax rates imposed on those who are more industrous than they are.

It's not Friday, yet. And I've put it about 50 hours doing what I do.

I work my ass off. I don't envy your income. I'd like a little bit more, sure. Who doesn't? But to imply that you're richer just because you work harder is ludicrous. I know for damn sure that there are people who live around me who work even harder than I do and make less than I do.

Arrogance like yours is the reason that people get pissed off at the rich. You're statement suggests that you're the very "elitist" that the right-wing rails on about. You look down your nose at those who make less than you and assume that they're trying to steal it from you - and then suggest they don't work as hard as you when I can guarantee you they work as hard or harder, but at different occupations. It's sort of like Rand Paul complaining about elitists while speaking at a Country Club or saying that Medicare is terrible while collecting money from Medicare.

You see the middle class as leeches instead of seeing them as the people that created your ability to gain wealth. The teachers that tought you probably make less than you. The secretaries and financial aid advisors at the college you attended probably make less than you. The nurses who have cared for you make less than you. The soldiers who protect this nation make less than you.

Your statement here suggests that you consider all them leeches trying to take your money instead of the consumers who support your through the purchasing power they possess when they're doing well.

The rich don't make the middle class. The middle class create the rich. Tax policies that constantly funnel money upwards strip the middle class of their purchasing ability and eventually harm the overall economy, which will eventually catch up to you (if you're as wealthy as you claim).

Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates:1979 to 2005

(Keep in mind, I borrowed this link from ElijahGalt - a self-expressed libertarian)

In that link, it shows this:

Under Bush - from 2004 to 2005, the tax burden for the Middle Class went up from 14.1% to 14.2% - thus a higher tax burden. While on the Top 1%, the burden went from 31.4% to 31.2%.

In other words, the middle class (using the income figures cited in the link) paid $129 more in taxes in 2005 than in 2004, while the top 1% paid $151,710 less in taxes between the two years. Additionally, the middle class only saw their income rise by $500 or .008%, while the top 1% saw their income rise by nearly 20% or $256,000.

That's a net gain for the middle class of $371. And a net gain for the top 1% of $407,000.

And what happened just a couple years later? Complete economic collapse. And a net job loss.

The Bush tax policies, combined with spending for two wars, and a complete lack of oversight of what was happening on Wall Street were irresponsible and were the reason why our country is on the brink. Never mind that the mortgage interest tax rate deduction is essentially a welfare policy for the top 2% and those who try to live above their means.
Mortgage Interest Deduction: An Unfair Subsidy for the Rich : Veterans Today

This is the biggest problem with politics today. I can actually appreciate someone like Rubio who at least sticks to what he says. But when a Missouri farmer puts up a billboard calling Democrats parasite - while he collects Medicare and more than $1 million in farm subsidies, I call BS. And that's the biggest movement going on right now is this: "Get rid of all the government spending, except the part spent on me!"

You can't claim to be in favor of deficit reduction while cutting taxes AND continuing to spend money on two wars (one, almost over, thankfully) and promising to keep Medicare as is. It's irresponsible and it's hypocritical.
 
It's not Friday, yet. And I've put it about 50 hours doing what I do.

I work my ass off. I don't envy your income. I'd like a little bit more, sure. Who doesn't? But to imply that you're richer just because you work harder is ludicrous. I know for damn sure that there are people who live around me who work even harder than I do and make less than I do.

Arrogance like yours is the reason that people get pissed off at the rich. You're statement suggests that you're the very "elitist" that the right-wing rails on about. You look down your nose at those who make less than you and assume that they're trying to steal it from you - and then suggest they don't work as hard as you when I can guarantee you they work as hard or harder, but at different occupations. It's sort of like Rand Paul complaining about elitists while speaking at a Country Club or saying that Medicare is terrible while collecting money from Medicare.

You see the middle class as leeches instead of seeing them as the people that created your ability to gain wealth. The teachers that tought you probably make less than you. The secretaries and financial aid advisors at the college you attended probably make less than you. The nurses who have cared for you make less than you. The soldiers who protect this nation make less than you.

Your statement here suggests that you consider all them leeches trying to take your money instead of the consumers who support your through the purchasing power they possess when they're doing well.

The rich don't make the middle class. The middle class create the rich. Tax policies that constantly funnel money upwards strip the middle class of their purchasing ability and eventually harm the overall economy, which will eventually catch up to you (if you're as wealthy as you claim).

Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates:1979 to 2005

(Keep in mind, I borrowed this link from ElijahGalt - a self-expressed libertarian)

In that link, it shows this:

Under Bush - from 2004 to 2005, the tax burden for the Middle Class went up from 14.1% to 14.2% - thus a higher tax burden. While on the Top 1%, the burden went from 31.4% to 31.2%.

In other words, the middle class (using the income figures cited in the link) paid $129 more in taxes in 2005 than in 2004, while the top 1% paid $151,710 less in taxes between the two years. Additionally, the middle class only saw their income rise by $500 or .008%, while the top 1% saw their income rise by nearly 20% or $256,000.

That's a net gain for the middle class of $371. And a net gain for the top 1% of $407,000.

And what happened just a couple years later? Complete economic collapse. And a net job loss.

The Bush tax policies, combined with spending for two wars, and a complete lack of oversight of what was happening on Wall Street were irresponsible and were the reason why our country is on the brink. Never mind that the mortgage interest tax rate deduction is essentially a welfare policy for the top 2% and those who try to live above their means.
Mortgage Interest Deduction: An Unfair Subsidy for the Rich : Veterans Today

This is the biggest problem with politics today. I can actually appreciate someone like Rubio who at least sticks to what he says. But when a Missouri farmer puts up a billboard calling Democrats parasite - while he collects Medicare and more than $1 million in farm subsidies, I call BS. And that's the biggest movement going on right now is this: "Get rid of all the government spending, except the part spent on me!"

You can't claim to be in favor of deficit reduction while cutting taxes AND continuing to spend money on two wars (one, almost over, thankfully) and promising to keep Medicare as is. It's irresponsible and it's hypocritical.

1) the real arrogance is claiming that others "can afford" or should pay more taxes and not having a rational argument for that.

2) the wars are not the biggest drain on the public treasury-its the idiotic entitlements that the dems foisted on us

(where did I say I support keeping Meidcare as it is.

3) your arrogance in saying that the top 2%-who pay far of the income tax burden than their share of the income is pathetic.

4) the current burden on the top 1% is about 40%-the highest it has ever been

5) people are pissed off at the rich out of envy and out of the BS the left has spewed for years. before I started posting on this subject the left was whining about the Bush tax cuts and how it was "unfair" that people who pay far more than their fair share got tax breaks. What you advocate costs me money, what I advocate costs you NOTHING

6) the rich create the rich. this attitude that the rich somehow owe you something is horsecrap
 
Over-taxing 'the rich' to provide for 'the not rich', is patently ridiculous. Helping ones fellow man is a moral obligation... it should not be a legal one, and should not be legislated. When we try to legislate morality, we generally fail.
 
Over-taxing 'the rich' to provide for 'the not rich', is patently ridiculous. Helping ones fellow man is a moral obligation... it should not be a legal one, and should not be legislated. When we try to legislate morality, we generally fail.

What's over taxing? Frankly, all that has been prosed is that they go back to where they were, whihc is no where near the highest tax rates we've had. Is any tax over taxing?
 
I've always been an advocate of hiring from within, but I'm sure there's more to this "knowledge and technology" issue than either of us could hope to identify in a few brief posts. Still, you do make a valid point.

At Lockheed, in the early seventies, our only contracts were military. Then the management decided to build a commercial plane (1011), and it was a disaster. The government finally bailed them out because we were still manufacturing producing the P3 and other secret planes.

All because the executives trusted their managers who only had military experience.

As a rule of thumb, hiring from within is OK if the product doesn't change too much, but for a new and different product you need new qualified expertise.

ricksfolly
 
I'm all for keeping the Bush tax cuts IF you can prove they actually do exactly as proponents claim they do. So far, the evidence that they don't is all around us!

But it's not just failed tax policies that have hurt this country over the years. It's a failed energy policy, a failed foreign policy, a failed education system, and a failed monitary policy. Now, those who oppose the Obama Administration would have one believe that his policies will lead this country down an even darker path. Clearly, things were bleak before he assumed office. Nevertheless, I've often wondered how effective his Administration could/would have been had he not had the economy to rescue. Other than health care reform legislation and the Recovery Act - both of which I know are widely unpopular with Republicans, can anyone name one other piece of legislation that has been enacted under the Obama presidency that IS NOT a by-product of the recession (i.e., unemployment insurance or the extension thereof) that in their opinion has been bad for this country?

Government oversight of Recovery Act (ARRA) spending will continue until 2013; most if not all the funds have either been spent or allocated. Health care reform legislation won't be fully enacted until 2014. Appropriations for unemployment insurance are typically re-authorized annually unless there is a specified expiration date for them. So, other than health care reform, the Recovery Act and unemployment benefits, what other laws has President Obama signed that in your opinion are bad pieces of legislation? To review what legislation has been signed to date under Pres. Obama's tenure, go to The White House.
 
At Lockheed, in the early seventies, our only contracts were military. Then the management decided to build a commercial plane (1011), and it was a disaster. The government finally bailed them out because we were still manufacturing producing the P3 and other secret planes.

All because the executives trusted their managers who only had military experience.

As a rule of thumb, hiring from within is OK if the product doesn't change too much, but for a new and different product you need new qualified expertise.

ricksfolly

So true!

There's a book entitled, "Good to Great", by Jim Collins. In it he makes a very profound statement concerning hiring practises:

(paraphrase) "Put the right people on the bus and they'll never get off."

Clearly, Lockhead-Martin had the right people within their management structure to handle military aircraft design and construction, but commercial aircraft are a somewhat different animal. We have Boeing and Lockhead offices/plants here. Glad to know they're still in business and doing well.
 
What's over taxing? Frankly, all that has been prosed is that they go back to where they were, whihc is no where near the highest tax rates we've had. Is any tax over taxing?

that is as silly as saying Jim Crow laws aren't bad because we once had slavery

are you willing to pay 40 cents of every next dollar you make to federal income tax? 91%

If you aren't willing to pay the same rates as those you want to soak you have no right to demand others pay more
 
that is as silly as saying Jim Crow laws aren't bad because we once had slavery

are you willing to pay 40 cents of every next dollar you make to federal income tax? 91%

If you aren't willing to pay the same rates as those you want to soak you have no right to demand others pay more

You benefit more from tax dollars than I do, so you get to pay more.
 
You benefit more from tax dollars than I do, so you get to pay more.

1) what stupidity

you cannot prove that and even if there was a flat tax I'd pay far more than I use

2) the middle class uses far more direct government benefits (ie the stuff that would get cut back if we shrunk government spending) that the rich do but the rich pay more taxes than the far bigger middle class

rich people tend to be mobile-the middle class less so

so tell me-what exact extra direct governmental benefits do I get for my direct extra tax payments?
 
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It's the same thing with the tax cuts. Things were bad due to cirucumstances outside of the tax cuts, if not for the tax cuts, things would have most likely been worse.
 
It's the same thing with the tax cuts. Things were bad due to cirucumstances outside of the tax cuts, if not for the tax cuts, things would have most likely been worse.

the wealth stealers and libs don't operate under the same ideals as we do. We look at tax cuts as the government being able to waste less of what is our etc. Many of the libs see tax cuts as hurting "social justice" and while they want to talk in end game economic effect, the reality is they want punitive taxes to afflict the comfortable.
 
that is as silly as saying Jim Crow laws aren't bad because we once had slavery

are you willing to pay 40 cents of every next dollar you make to federal income tax? 91%

If you aren't willing to pay the same rates as those you want to soak you have no right to demand others pay more

Nonsense. It is only going back to where we were, which was no where near the highest rates we've seen in this country. And in no way does it compare, in anyway, with Jim Crow laws.
 
Nonsense. It is only going back to where we were, which was no where near the highest rates we've seen in this country. And in no way does it compare, in anyway, with Jim Crow laws.

agreed.

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