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Thread: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) who do you find on this board supporting the bail outs
    Never said you did, but you certainly dont seem to feel it was corporate welfare or that it is as bad or actually worse then normal welfare, afterall they are people who are paid large amounts to know better
    2) what presidential candidate got most of the wall street support
    Doesnt really matter they went with who they thought was going to win, I expect democrats and Obama to get vastly lower amounts next year
    3) what administration has a bunch of wall street fat cats in positions of power
    The Bush admin, the obama admin, both had/have plenty of ex Goldman Sach people in admin positions (Paulson ring a bell as Teas sec under Bush). Realistically McCain would not have been any harder on Wall Street then Obama and most likely would have not wanted to reform the regulatory system that does need to change
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 10-15-10 at 01:37 AM.
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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) who do you find on this board supporting the bail outs
    Anyone smart enough to realize that they actually like their retirement funds.

    2) what presidential candidate got most of the wall street support
    Considering the timeframe, probably Bush. Between two Presidential elections not to mention Governor runs (consider his father and grandfather), it's likely he got more. Not that it really matters though.

    3) what administration has a bunch of wall street fat cats in positions of power
    I'd like you to meet Henry Paulson, John W. Snow and Paul O'Neill.

    My, how short peoples' memories are.
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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    we have to tax our way to prosperity
    Before we do that let's make sure that gays can openly serve in the military and allot some funds to teach our military to be sympathetic and understanding to the special needs of this brutally oppressed minority. Let's bring the "criminals" or misguided youth from Cuba to New York...hardly can call them criminals with the USA's policies being the real culprit. Then we can create more pant****ting initiatives to tax our way to prosperity. Save us Obama!
    Caitlyn Strong...

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    a funny comment from those who spend so much time arguing in favor of confiscatory tax rates imposed on those who are more industrous than they are.
    It's not Friday, yet. And I've put it about 50 hours doing what I do.

    I work my ass off. I don't envy your income. I'd like a little bit more, sure. Who doesn't? But to imply that you're richer just because you work harder is ludicrous. I know for damn sure that there are people who live around me who work even harder than I do and make less than I do.

    Arrogance like yours is the reason that people get pissed off at the rich. You're statement suggests that you're the very "elitist" that the right-wing rails on about. You look down your nose at those who make less than you and assume that they're trying to steal it from you - and then suggest they don't work as hard as you when I can guarantee you they work as hard or harder, but at different occupations. It's sort of like Rand Paul complaining about elitists while speaking at a Country Club or saying that Medicare is terrible while collecting money from Medicare.

    You see the middle class as leeches instead of seeing them as the people that created your ability to gain wealth. The teachers that tought you probably make less than you. The secretaries and financial aid advisors at the college you attended probably make less than you. The nurses who have cared for you make less than you. The soldiers who protect this nation make less than you.

    Your statement here suggests that you consider all them leeches trying to take your money instead of the consumers who support your through the purchasing power they possess when they're doing well.

    The rich don't make the middle class. The middle class create the rich. Tax policies that constantly funnel money upwards strip the middle class of their purchasing ability and eventually harm the overall economy, which will eventually catch up to you (if you're as wealthy as you claim).

    Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates:1979 to 2005

    (Keep in mind, I borrowed this link from ElijahGalt - a self-expressed libertarian)

    In that link, it shows this:

    Under Bush - from 2004 to 2005, the tax burden for the Middle Class went up from 14.1% to 14.2% - thus a higher tax burden. While on the Top 1%, the burden went from 31.4% to 31.2%.

    In other words, the middle class (using the income figures cited in the link) paid $129 more in taxes in 2005 than in 2004, while the top 1% paid $151,710 less in taxes between the two years. Additionally, the middle class only saw their income rise by $500 or .008%, while the top 1% saw their income rise by nearly 20% or $256,000.

    That's a net gain for the middle class of $371. And a net gain for the top 1% of $407,000.

    And what happened just a couple years later? Complete economic collapse. And a net job loss.

    The Bush tax policies, combined with spending for two wars, and a complete lack of oversight of what was happening on Wall Street were irresponsible and were the reason why our country is on the brink. Never mind that the mortgage interest tax rate deduction is essentially a welfare policy for the top 2% and those who try to live above their means.
    Mortgage Interest Deduction: An Unfair Subsidy for the Rich : Veterans Today

    This is the biggest problem with politics today. I can actually appreciate someone like Rubio who at least sticks to what he says. But when a Missouri farmer puts up a billboard calling Democrats parasite - while he collects Medicare and more than $1 million in farm subsidies, I call BS. And that's the biggest movement going on right now is this: "Get rid of all the government spending, except the part spent on me!"

    You can't claim to be in favor of deficit reduction while cutting taxes AND continuing to spend money on two wars (one, almost over, thankfully) and promising to keep Medicare as is. It's irresponsible and it's hypocritical.

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    It's not Friday, yet. And I've put it about 50 hours doing what I do.

    I work my ass off. I don't envy your income. I'd like a little bit more, sure. Who doesn't? But to imply that you're richer just because you work harder is ludicrous. I know for damn sure that there are people who live around me who work even harder than I do and make less than I do.

    Arrogance like yours is the reason that people get pissed off at the rich. You're statement suggests that you're the very "elitist" that the right-wing rails on about. You look down your nose at those who make less than you and assume that they're trying to steal it from you - and then suggest they don't work as hard as you when I can guarantee you they work as hard or harder, but at different occupations. It's sort of like Rand Paul complaining about elitists while speaking at a Country Club or saying that Medicare is terrible while collecting money from Medicare.

    You see the middle class as leeches instead of seeing them as the people that created your ability to gain wealth. The teachers that tought you probably make less than you. The secretaries and financial aid advisors at the college you attended probably make less than you. The nurses who have cared for you make less than you. The soldiers who protect this nation make less than you.

    Your statement here suggests that you consider all them leeches trying to take your money instead of the consumers who support your through the purchasing power they possess when they're doing well.

    The rich don't make the middle class. The middle class create the rich. Tax policies that constantly funnel money upwards strip the middle class of their purchasing ability and eventually harm the overall economy, which will eventually catch up to you (if you're as wealthy as you claim).

    Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates:1979 to 2005

    (Keep in mind, I borrowed this link from ElijahGalt - a self-expressed libertarian)

    In that link, it shows this:

    Under Bush - from 2004 to 2005, the tax burden for the Middle Class went up from 14.1% to 14.2% - thus a higher tax burden. While on the Top 1%, the burden went from 31.4% to 31.2%.

    In other words, the middle class (using the income figures cited in the link) paid $129 more in taxes in 2005 than in 2004, while the top 1% paid $151,710 less in taxes between the two years. Additionally, the middle class only saw their income rise by $500 or .008%, while the top 1% saw their income rise by nearly 20% or $256,000.

    That's a net gain for the middle class of $371. And a net gain for the top 1% of $407,000.

    And what happened just a couple years later? Complete economic collapse. And a net job loss.

    The Bush tax policies, combined with spending for two wars, and a complete lack of oversight of what was happening on Wall Street were irresponsible and were the reason why our country is on the brink. Never mind that the mortgage interest tax rate deduction is essentially a welfare policy for the top 2% and those who try to live above their means.
    Mortgage Interest Deduction: An Unfair Subsidy for the Rich : Veterans Today

    This is the biggest problem with politics today. I can actually appreciate someone like Rubio who at least sticks to what he says. But when a Missouri farmer puts up a billboard calling Democrats parasite - while he collects Medicare and more than $1 million in farm subsidies, I call BS. And that's the biggest movement going on right now is this: "Get rid of all the government spending, except the part spent on me!"

    You can't claim to be in favor of deficit reduction while cutting taxes AND continuing to spend money on two wars (one, almost over, thankfully) and promising to keep Medicare as is. It's irresponsible and it's hypocritical.
    1) the real arrogance is claiming that others "can afford" or should pay more taxes and not having a rational argument for that.

    2) the wars are not the biggest drain on the public treasury-its the idiotic entitlements that the dems foisted on us

    (where did I say I support keeping Meidcare as it is.

    3) your arrogance in saying that the top 2%-who pay far of the income tax burden than their share of the income is pathetic.

    4) the current burden on the top 1% is about 40%-the highest it has ever been

    5) people are pissed off at the rich out of envy and out of the BS the left has spewed for years. before I started posting on this subject the left was whining about the Bush tax cuts and how it was "unfair" that people who pay far more than their fair share got tax breaks. What you advocate costs me money, what I advocate costs you NOTHING

    6) the rich create the rich. this attitude that the rich somehow owe you something is horsecrap



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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Over-taxing 'the rich' to provide for 'the not rich', is patently ridiculous. Helping ones fellow man is a moral obligation... it should not be a legal one, and should not be legislated. When we try to legislate morality, we generally fail.

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Over-taxing 'the rich' to provide for 'the not rich', is patently ridiculous. Helping ones fellow man is a moral obligation... it should not be a legal one, and should not be legislated. When we try to legislate morality, we generally fail.
    What's over taxing? Frankly, all that has been prosed is that they go back to where they were, whihc is no where near the highest tax rates we've had. Is any tax over taxing?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I've always been an advocate of hiring from within, but I'm sure there's more to this "knowledge and technology" issue than either of us could hope to identify in a few brief posts. Still, you do make a valid point.
    At Lockheed, in the early seventies, our only contracts were military. Then the management decided to build a commercial plane (1011), and it was a disaster. The government finally bailed them out because we were still manufacturing producing the P3 and other secret planes.

    All because the executives trusted their managers who only had military experience.

    As a rule of thumb, hiring from within is OK if the product doesn't change too much, but for a new and different product you need new qualified expertise.

    ricksfolly

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    I'm all for keeping the Bush tax cuts IF you can prove they actually do exactly as proponents claim they do. So far, the evidence that they don't is all around us!

    But it's not just failed tax policies that have hurt this country over the years. It's a failed energy policy, a failed foreign policy, a failed education system, and a failed monitary policy. Now, those who oppose the Obama Administration would have one believe that his policies will lead this country down an even darker path. Clearly, things were bleak before he assumed office. Nevertheless, I've often wondered how effective his Administration could/would have been had he not had the economy to rescue. Other than health care reform legislation and the Recovery Act - both of which I know are widely unpopular with Republicans, can anyone name one other piece of legislation that has been enacted under the Obama presidency that IS NOT a by-product of the recession (i.e., unemployment insurance or the extension thereof) that in their opinion has been bad for this country?

    Government oversight of Recovery Act (ARRA) spending will continue until 2013; most if not all the funds have either been spent or allocated. Health care reform legislation won't be fully enacted until 2014. Appropriations for unemployment insurance are typically re-authorized annually unless there is a specified expiration date for them. So, other than health care reform, the Recovery Act and unemployment benefits, what other laws has President Obama signed that in your opinion are bad pieces of legislation? To review what legislation has been signed to date under Pres. Obama's tenure, go to The White House.

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    At Lockheed, in the early seventies, our only contracts were military. Then the management decided to build a commercial plane (1011), and it was a disaster. The government finally bailed them out because we were still manufacturing producing the P3 and other secret planes.

    All because the executives trusted their managers who only had military experience.

    As a rule of thumb, hiring from within is OK if the product doesn't change too much, but for a new and different product you need new qualified expertise.

    ricksfolly
    So true!

    There's a book entitled, "Good to Great", by Jim Collins. In it he makes a very profound statement concerning hiring practises:

    (paraphrase) "Put the right people on the bus and they'll never get off."

    Clearly, Lockhead-Martin had the right people within their management structure to handle military aircraft design and construction, but commercial aircraft are a somewhat different animal. We have Boeing and Lockhead offices/plants here. Glad to know they're still in business and doing well.

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