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Thread: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    The manufacturing will be done overseas, but the design, management, marketing and sales would be done here. Those industries will probably be service industries, not requiring much manufacturing.
    Jobs which only those with the proper education can do. We need jobs for people that are not as educated. Manufacturing jobs are perfect for this.

    This structural change would happen with or without the FTA. The FTA opened up new markets to our products and expanded our economy.
    It was the FTA that allowed so many manufacturing jobs to go over seas.
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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Jobs which only those with the proper education can do. We need jobs for people that are not as educated. Manufacturing jobs are perfect for this.
    I understand this. The reality is that those jobs are not returning. Period. People need to face this and get educated for the new structural economy or they will have to compete with Mexicans for employment in the fast food industry.


    It was the FTA that allowed so many manufacturing jobs to go over seas.
    They would have gone overseas without the FTA.

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by b.larset View Post
    We lost manufacturing jobs. all the tax cuts did was to help the middle class keep the hole plugged in their little economic dingy. Now the water rushes in and the democrats and republicans offer you help bailing water? We NEED national manufACTURING NOT WELFARE FROM THE POLITICAL AND BUSINESS CLASS.
    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Not going to happen. There has been a structural change in the economy and it can't be reverted. What is needed is the formation of new types of industries.
    Hence, the reason the current Administration has been pushing for investments in renewable energy, i.e., wind, solar, nuclear, etc, and has stated consistently that businesses that hiring people in the U.S. instead of outsourcing jobs overseas would receive tax cuts. At some point, this country has to recognize that unless we invest in new manufactoring industries we will continue to lag in GDP and have a trade imbalance. Something's got to give.

    On the article, I found this part interesting:

    The number of people reporting incomes of $200,000 or more but legally paying no federal income taxes skyrocketed in the second Bush term. A decade ago it was fewer than 1,500 taxpayers; in 2000 it was about 2,300. This high-income, tax-free group jumped to more than 11,000 in 2007 and then doubled in 2008 to more than 22,000.

    In 2008 nearly 1 in every 200 high-income taxpayers paid no federal income tax, up from about 1 in 1,500 in 1998.

    The share of high incomes that were untaxed increased more than sevenfold to one dollar of every $166.

    The Statistics of Income data on tax-free, high incomes severely understate economic reality because they exclude deferral accounts, including those of hedge fund managers with billion-dollar incomes who can legally report no current income and borrow against their untaxed gains to live tax free.
    So, apparently the criticism that "the poor who don't pay income tax received tax refunds" goes both ways. I can understand people being upset on the low-income end - the poor receiving federal tax refunds when they didn't pay into the tax system - but people making over $200K not paying federal income taxes!?! No wonder the President wants to cut them off...a decade of some of our highest wage earners using tax shelters to avoid paying taxes. I don't mind high wage earners being able to keep more of what they earn, but my goodness!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Jobs which only those with the proper education can do. We need jobs for people that are not as educated. Manufacturing jobs are perfect for this.
    That's kinda been the problem over the last 20 years or so. Manufacturing plants began to use more technology, but fewer people had the knowledge and skills to operate the machinery. It's one of the reasons manufacturing jobs began going overseas - not enough trained technicians here.

    I applauded the President's initiative to couple education with technology (jobs). It's up to the next generation to fully embrace the education benefits and opportunities that are now afforded to them.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 10-10-10 at 05:45 PM.

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    That's kinda been the problem over the last 20 years or so. Manufacturing plants began to use more technology, but fewer people had the knowledge and skills to operate the machinery. It's one of the reasons manufacturing jobs began going overseas - not enough trained technicians here.

    I applauded the President's initiative to couple education with technology (jobs). It's up to the next generation to fully embrace the education benefits and opportunities that are now afforded to them.
    I know one would normally think that the more technology that there is then you would naturally need more educated people. But that's not entirely true. Technology has gotten to the point where a simple push of the button and reading some readouts will do the trick, combined with quality inspectors and thats much of all that needs to be done. Those people could be trained by the company itself to do what needs to be done, they could even train people for the jobs that do require hands on work. And really, wouldn't a company rather have someone that is trained for the specific job they need with their particular quirks in mind than someone fresh out of college that thinks they know what the company needs?
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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    good point, the mess started with the New Deal where massive entitlement programs were created along with those who became dependent on them.
    You seem to forget that the unemployed rate was over 25 percent, worst in history, when Roosevelt took over.

    It's counter productive, even dumb, to judge what he did or didn't do when you weren't there to witness it.

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Who cares. The tax cuts were enacted to help fight an inherited recession that was made worse by 9/11 attacks. If not for the tax cuts, it's likely that the economic situation would have been even worse then it was. At that point the least of your concerns would have been tax cuts while fighting a war.
    If you recall, Clinton delivered a surplus in 2000. At the end of the year, the stock market was still soaring high and remained there until 9/11. W. Bush ran on promises of tax cuts. They were not a response to anything. He would have done the same thing no matter what was happening in this country. And if you look at the unemployment rate by year (among many other things), it's very clear that the recession in the middle of Bush's term had no relationship to what was happening in 2000.
    A working class hero is something to be

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    If you recall, Clinton delivered a surplus in 2000. At the end of the year, the stock market was still soaring high and remained there until 9/11. W. Bush ran on promises of tax cuts. They were not a response to anything. He would have done the same thing no matter what was happening in this country. And if you look at the unemployment rate by year (among many other things), it's very clear that the recession in the middle of Bush's term had no relationship to what was happening in 2000.
    It was known that the US was entereing recession before the election. It was one of the big topics of the election. And Clinton/Gore and other democrats kept claiming that the republicans were just trying to "talk us into a recession". Basically so that they could win the election. Bush's way to make the recession shallower and shorter was with tax cuts. So of course it was in response to the looming recession. Don't believe me?

    The looming Clinton/Gore recession Erdman's World - MarketWatch
    What brought out his most recent ire was the suggestion of Vice President-elect Dick Cheney that we might be in for a recession next year, and that we should therefore press ahead with a tax cut to provide what might prove to be badly needed fiscal stimulus.

    Despite all the signs pointing to the obvious, Krugman seems to still be in denial regarding a looming Clinton/Gore recession in 2001. He writes: "Mr. Cheney suggested - with more confidence in his forecast than any professional economists I know - that we are facing a looming recession." One wonders who Krugman is hanging around with these days.

    Equally puzzling is that he regards tax cuts as a "specious recession fighting rationale." This from a former MIT economics professor. He even accuses Cheney of being a "vulgar Keynesian."
    BTW, the official start date of the recession inherited from Clinton's administration was 03/01. A mere 3 months after taking office. Bush didn't cause a recession in just three months. He hadn't even hardly done anything yet. The recession was inherited from the prior admin - not that i blame Clinton, it's just the way it goes.

    PPS. I just checked the stock market performance during the 2001 recession, and it was not going up. nice try, though.
    Last edited by buck; 10-10-10 at 07:38 PM.

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    NO. We lost everything it only needs to be clicked and sent! No need for the best and the brightest in America when you have the most sincere and romantic dreamy eyed capitalist's voting to sell our economic strength for the LOVE of an idea awe inspiring and sensual it seduces well meaning people by appealing to their notion of trade as a mutual balance or it aides in their romantic feelings about commerce. Reducing it to an exchange between- lovers who are caught off guard by the world around them and feel the fire of their passion so strongly that embers from the flames lite on everything around them until the whole of the electorate feels the heat that rages from the blissful embrace of capitalism's muted chorus of delight. Man it's trade between nations. Not a courtship between two people," caught up in the storm of a moment livid with a singular notion of togertherness". China dont care about us- and you think for one moment if not for our military they would be workin for our stuff thru half baked agreements that mostly favor them? No. They would come and take it. Free trade doesnt work. November may prove to be what Newt Gingrich , Refered to as PEROT VOTERS If we are those voters who were hoodwinked into believing false rhetoric about free trade then the next several cycles will start emboldening pro-national manufacturing candidates to run for office. They get my vote.

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    How about addressing the article in the OP:
    Is there something preventing Liberals understanding cause and effect, or is just that whole reading comprehension hangup raising it's ugly head again.

    The threats of Obama's policies along with spending policies killed any chance of improvement for years to come.

    Some of you people need a play book that includes a course in basic economics, and doesn't have G.W. Bush as your only excuse for everything from the sinking of the Lusitania to the Earth Quakes around the world. I know you lack imagination past the talking points Obamaniacs all use but it's getting old.

    Besides, just because some of us are Conservatives didn't make us big Bush or McCain supporters. Neither one is a Conservative in my book. In fact Bush was a damn progressive idiot, just not as far left or radical as Obama.
    Last edited by Councilman; 10-10-10 at 07:49 PM.

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    Re: So How Did the Bush Tax Cuts Work Out for the Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    You seem to forget that the unemployed rate was over 25 percent, worst in history, when Roosevelt took over.

    It's counter productive, even dumb, to judge what he did or didn't do when you weren't there to witness it.

    ricksfolly
    lame-the threatened packing of the court in 1937 meant that precedent and stare decisis was ignored and clearly unconstitutional laws were allowed to remain-laws that have created a massive expansion of the federal government and a rape of the tenth amendment and the boundaries placed on the federal government



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