Private sector sheds 39,000 jobs in September

Boo Radley said:

I like the WSJ, but I'm not sure that address what I speaking about. I'm speaking to more people paying premiums who were not paying premiums. We have a large number of uninsured people who will now be paying money to insurance companies. This has to increase revenue, making rate increase less neccessaary.

The tax seems to speak to something else I think.

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It will be hard to pay when unemployed

ptif219 said:

He has done nothing. He is incompetent and has failed when it comes to unemployment and the economy. Growing the debt and government will not fix either.

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Well, I don't see a rational argument there. Only an emotional appeal that is rooted in anger. For those who needed coverage and now will be covered, they might see it a little different than you do. it's possible you know.

Boo Radley said:

Well, I don't see a rational argument there. Only an emotional appeal that is rooted in anger. For those who needed coverage and now will be covered, they might see it a little different than you do. it's possible you know.

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If the economy is in the tank and unemployment is high how is this paid. Increasing the debt to pay for it increases the problem. Obama has failed.

Boo Radley said:

Yes, and that would effect government spending and not insurance company needs to increase premiums, right? Not saying the bill is perfect, but I doubt the insuirance companies need to raise premiums.

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Don't forget that a fair number of people getting coverage will be people who are already sick, which will increase the costs to the insurance companies, which will increase premiums because you KNOW they are not going to just eat the costs themselves.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled jobs thread....

Ah the manufacturing sector... this is what happens when cheap foreign labour competes with domestic markets. Obama is not to blame.

China is essentially lending the money to the US so that the US can buy their stuff. This isn't sustainable. Eventually both the Yuan and the greenback are going to have to be massively devalued, and the entire thing will fall apart bringing down both economies in the process, via hyperinflation. You think the unemployment rate is bad now? Just wait.

The current arrangement creates an illusion of growth in both countries, but it is only illusion, because there is no increase in standard of living or real personal income. The US growth illusion comes from the increase in spending on lower and lower grade products which have a shorter and shorter lifespan, but via hedonic manipulation of the numbers the government can make it look like growth. The growth in China is a capital growth only. The national reserves increase, thus making the country look more prosperous, but what real good does holding the bills of a bankrupt nation really do? China will never be able to convert its US money holdings into assets other than paper, unless their domestic economy magnifies at unrealizable rates so that their own citizens can unburden their own government of this worthless paper debt.

Unless things change, you can expect the situation to continue to deteriorate in the future. Obama only has the power to initiate small changes. It would take several administrations to pull it off. Right now though it looks like the status quo to me.

Whovian said:

Don't forget that a fair number of people getting coverage will be people who are already sick, which will increase the costs to the insurance companies, which will increase premiums because you KNOW they are not going to just eat the costs themselves.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled jobs thread....

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To be honest, I don't know what that number will be. Many tell me we have a large number of healthy people who will be forced to pay premiums. However, if insurance companies are going to raise rates, I would think they would have to prove that more sick people than well people will be added.

Boo Radley said:

To be honest, I don't know what that number will be. Many tell me we have a large number of healthy people who will be forced to pay premiums. However, if insurance companies are going to raise rates, I would think they would have to prove that more sick people than well people will be added.

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Plus the fact that the already sick will more than likely visit a emergency room sometime during their illness.:2wave:

ptif219 said:

If the economy is in the tank and unemployment is high how is this paid. Increasing the debt to pay for it increases the problem. Obama has failed.

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Only politically and that only has meaning to politicians.

The facts are when Obama was elected the unemployment was already 5.8 percent. Now it's 9.4 percent. Only a 3.6 percent increase on his watch... Read em and weep.

ricksfolly

ricksfolly said:

Only politically and that only has meaning to politicians.

The facts are when Obama was elected the unemployment was already 5.8 percent. Now it's 9.4 percent. Only a 3.6 percent increase on his watch... Read em and weep.

ricksfolly

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Only? It was up to 10% under Obama. If Obama would stop pushing his socialist agenda and work on the economy and unemployment his poll numbers might stop falling.

ptif219 said:

Only? It was up to 10% under Obama. If Obama would stop pushing his socialist agenda and work on the economy and unemployment his poll numbers might stop falling.

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So, again, you believe government is the answer and the president can fix the economy?

ptif219 said:

Only? It was up to 10% under Obama. If Obama would stop pushing his socialist agenda and work on the economy and unemployment his poll numbers might stop falling.

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I really wish some of you would learn a thing or two about Socialism before you start flailing around this out of date scare tactic.

Did you not get the memo?

THE COLD WAR IS OVER.

Jetboogieman said:

I really wish some of you would learn a thing or two about Socialism before you start flailing around this out of date scare tactic.

Did you not get the memo?

THE COLD WAR IS OVER.

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My kingdom for just a little originality!!!! The scoalism scare is soooo old.

Boo Radley said:

My kingdom for just a little originality!!!! The scoalism scare is soooo old.

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Notice what's more interesting and a little sinister about the whole Socialism scare tactic.

Look at who it works on...

Indoctrination was and in some ways still is very much a part of American life.

Folks brought up with the old scare mongering of the cold war, still believe those things, and will never stop doing so.

A large chunk of the population.

Jetboogieman said:

Notice what's more interesting and a little sinister about the whole Socialism scare tactic.

Look at who it works on...

Indoctrination was and in some ways still is very much a part of American life.

Folks brought up with the old scare mongering of the cold war, still believe those things, and will never stop doing so.

A large chunk of the population.

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Sadly, that's true. Sadly.

Boo Radley said:

Sadly, that's true. Sadly.

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"The easiest way to control a population, is to make them believe there's an enemy from without, but most important of all from within."

Or as it should be called: Fortress Mentality.

Boo Radley said:

So, again, you believe government is the answer and the president can fix the economy?

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Nice spin. If that were true Obama would not know how. Government should help the private sector with incentives to hire people. Not programs like Obama care that stop companies from hiring

ptif219 said:

Nice spin. If that were true Obama would not know how. Government should help the private sector with incentives to hire people. Not programs like Obama care that stop companies from hiring

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You keep claiming the president must fix something he doesn't control. I don't understand that. however, we have a study that says tax cuts will not create jobs. That business do not hire based on incentives. I remember to well us giving GM money in the past to create jobs. Back then, they took the money and laid off 25% of their workforce. Goodie for incentives. Maybe you're not old enough to remember that.

But, if presidents and congress could control the economy, I doubt it would ever be bad, especially in an election year. You need to grasp that the government doesn't control the economy.

Boo Radley said:

You keep claiming the president must fix something he doesn't control. I don't understand that. however, we have a study that says tax cuts will not create jobs. That business do not hire based on incentives. I remember to well us giving GM money in the past to create jobs. Back then, they took the money and laid off 25% of their workforce. Goodie for incentives. Maybe you're not old enough to remember that.

But, if presidents and congress could control the economy, I doubt it would ever be bad, especially in an election year. You need to grasp that the government doesn't control the economy.

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Then explain why the stimulus. Obama can do things to encourage expanding business like tax breaks

ptif219 said:

Then explain why the stimulus. Obama can do things to encourage expanding business like tax breaks

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A third of the stimulus package was tax breaks, and there have been several bills floated to increase credit to small businesses and give them tax breaks.

Republicans keep shooting them down...

Deuce said:

A third of the stimulus package was tax breaks, and there have been several bills floated to increase credit to small businesses and give them tax breaks.

Republicans keep shooting them down...

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Plus we have had the bush tax-cuts in effect for the last ten years now. Didn’t see much improvement. :roll:

ptif219 said:

Then explain why the stimulus. Obama can do things to encourage expanding business like tax breaks

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He has to be seen as doing something. And spending some money, keeps some jobs, and does more than sitting there. And if you think the seat is hot formhim now, had there been no stimulus, he and the democrats would be worse off than they are today. Like Bush had to, he has to look like he's doing something and hope that the economy improves. If it does, he'll take credit. And people like you openned the door for him to do this by suggesting he can fix it. You can't balme him for not fixing it and then njot give him credit when it improves. So, your side has to hope it won't improve.

Boo Radley said:

He has to be seen as doing something. And spending some money, keeps some jobs, and does more than sitting there. And if you think the seat is hot formhim now, had there been no stimulus, he and the democrats would be worse off than they are today. Like Bush had to, he has to look like he's doing something and hope that the economy improves. If it does, he'll take credit. And people like you openned the door for him to do this by suggesting he can fix it. You can't balme him for not fixing it and then njot give him credit when it improves. So, your side has to hope it won't improve.

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Do you sometimes feel your banging you head against a hollow log?

Deuce said:

A third of the stimulus package was tax breaks, and there have been several bills floated to increase credit to small businesses and give them tax breaks.

Republicans keep shooting them down...

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Because of pork and deficit spending attached to them. Obama and the dems passed paygo. When will they stop breaking their own law and follow the pay go plan?

Boo Radley said:

He has to be seen as doing something. And spending some money, keeps some jobs, and does more than sitting there. And if you think the seat is hot formhim now, had there been no stimulus, he and the democrats would be worse off than they are today. Like Bush had to, he has to look like he's doing something and hope that the economy improves. If it does, he'll take credit. And people like you openned the door for him to do this by suggesting he can fix it. You can't balme him for not fixing it and then njot give him credit when it improves. So, your side has to hope it won't improve.

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Wrong.. When most of stimulus money goes to help democrats and unions we see what Obama is doing. Obama does not care about the country only those that help him.

ptif219 said:

Wrong.. When most of stimulus money goes to help democrats and unions we see what Obama is doing. Obama does not care about the country only those that help him.

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And you want to be taken seriously?