Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: Stop the Internet Blacklist

  1. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Last Seen
    09-24-12 @ 02:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: Stop the Internet Blacklist

    Quote Originally Posted by mikhail View Post
    The internet is no country or companies property.
    So, using software to download a bitTorrent containing the latest Metallica album or X-Men movie is just like walking down the street (in no country) and finding a copy of the same movie or album that someone (the film/music disto company) accidentally left behind... Oops...

    all those 0s and 1s are property...

    And when someone gets your CC number off an IRC channel, they're not actually holding the plastic, that's still in your wallet. But they use it on the internet for few days until visa flags them... But it all happened on the internet, not a real country... And all those motherboards you didn't buy aren't real property either... so we shouldn't worry??

  2. #12
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Stop the Internet Blacklist

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    So, using software to download a bitTorrent containing the latest Metallica album or X-Men movie is just like walking down the street (in no country) and finding a copy of the same movie or album that someone (the film/music disto company) accidentally left behind... Oops...

    all those 0s and 1s are property...

    And when someone gets your CC number off an IRC channel, they're not actually holding the plastic, that's still in your wallet. But they use it on the internet for few days until visa flags them... But it all happened on the internet, not a real country... And all those motherboards you didn't buy aren't real property either... so we shouldn't worry??
    Illegal acts on the internet does not justify draconian censorship measures. There are other ways to combat illegal acts, like arresting or suing the perpetrators.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  3. #13
    Professor
    Travelsonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:20 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    1,376

    Re: Stop the Internet Blacklist

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    And when someone gets your CC number off an IRC channel, they're not actually holding the plastic, that's still in your wallet. But they use it on the internet for few days until visa flags them...l:
    Not an apt analogy to piracy at all.
    Nationalism in high dosages may be hazardous to your health. Please consult a psychiatrist before beginning a regular regimen, and if feelings of elitism and douchbaggery continue, discontinue immediately before you become unable to do so on your own.

  4. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Last Seen
    09-24-12 @ 02:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: Stop the Internet Blacklist

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Illegal acts on the internet does not justify draconian censorship measures.
    So when a court issues an injunction or a grand jury hears evidence and issues an indictment... the carrying out of the court order by Marshals is 'draconian'?? This would be a technological extension of an arrest warrant or court order.

    What's being censored? If we close down a chop shop dealing in stolen car parts, are we censoring them? If we shut down a flea market booth selling bootleg DVDs, is the owner being censored?

    Why not extend the legal authority of U.S. courts in a pragmatic and efficient manner.

    There are other ways to combat illegal acts, like arresting or suing the perpetrators.
    Can't touch them in China, Sweden, Ukraine...

    Look, stolen property is not 'free speech'. Trafficking in stolen property is illegal. However, the internet creates a new mechanism for moving stolen property through normally legal methods. The illegal site with stolen files may not be hosted here in the U.S., but via the internet, we can access it.

    Picture an empty storefront. You walk in and the store is magically filled with all the latest software and it's all free. Normally a store buys software wholesale from Adobe or Microsoft, but this store got one copy and made a thousand more without paying for each copy. As soon as you exit the store, it doesn't exist and the cops can't ever find it or touch it. Don't we as Americans have the right and legal duty to block entrance to that store? Adobe, Microsoft are American companies with shareholders etc.

    As long as there's a legal process for deciding who goes on the list, I have no problem with it. If you are wrongly put on the list, you can appeal, sue for damages, loss of income etc. If you were a legal business.

  5. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Last Seen
    09-24-12 @ 02:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: Stop the Internet Blacklist

    Quote Originally Posted by Travelsonic View Post
    Not an apt analogy to piracy at all.
    It wasn't meant to be.

    It's just another crime that uses the internet. People trade stolen CC numbers and kiddie porn on IRC channels.

    Youtube will never be shut down.

    But Canadian's who sell modified satellite boxes over the internet??

  6. #16
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Stop the Internet Blacklist

    Considering that the average judge doesn't have the slightest idea how the internet works, this seems like a terrible idea.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  7. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    12-26-10 @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,083

    Re: Stop the Internet Blacklist

    This is different from the Chinese firewall how?

  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-04-10 @ 07:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    588

    Re: Stop the Internet Blacklist

    Does Anybody think that Prison Planet might have a problem???

  9. #19
    Professor
    Travelsonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:20 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    1,376

    Re: Stop the Internet Blacklist

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    So when a court issues an injunction or a grand jury hears evidence and issues an indictment... the carrying out of the court order by Marshals is 'draconian'??
    The problem here, with bills like ACTA and this, is the burden of proof or lack therefore needed - that and the disconnect between those in power and the knowledge about how technology works on even the basic level.


    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    What's being censored?
    Nothing yet, but that isn't being said - the POTENTIAL for cesorship is very high.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    If we close down a chop shop dealing in stolen car parts, are we censoring them? If we shut down a flea market booth selling bootleg DVDs, is the owner being censored?
    Yes - albiet legitimately - the definition of censorship doesn't change - the legitimacy though is there in these cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Why not extend the legal authority of U.S. courts in a pragmatic and efficient manner.
    Because it is being done using flawed bills lobbied for corporations, and said corproations will be given too much leeway. As it is, DMCA takedown notices, for example, are already being abused to on YouTunbe for example with no repricussions. The Church of Scientology, for example, has not yet - from what I've heard - face any repricussions for the false DMCA notices they sent to suppress opposition.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Look, stolen property is not 'free speech'. Trafficking in stolen property is illegal. However, the internet creates a new mechanism for moving stolen property through normally legal methods. The illegal site with stolen files may not be hosted here in the U.S., but via the internet, we can access it.
    However, we are not talking about that at all [posession of stolen property] and digital files can't be "stolen" in the same way physical goods can be from a storefront - and the law clearly reflects this. In fact, that attempt to equate copyright infringement and trafficking stolen goods was made by prosecutors in Dowling v. U.S in 1985 - an argument that failed miserably because of the obvious differences between IP and physical property.



    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    As long as there's a legal process for deciding who goes on the list, I have no problem with it. If you are wrongly put on the list, you can appeal, sue for damages, loss of income etc. If you were a legal business.
    They said that about the DMCA, and the no-fly list. Bollocks.
    Nationalism in high dosages may be hazardous to your health. Please consult a psychiatrist before beginning a regular regimen, and if feelings of elitism and douchbaggery continue, discontinue immediately before you become unable to do so on your own.

  10. #20
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:51 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,305

    Re: Stop the Internet Blacklist

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The government should have no business censoring websites.


    David Segal: Stop the Internet Blacklist
    When it really matters to them, Congressmembers can come together -- with a panache and wry wit you didn't know they had. As banned books week gets underway, and President Obama admonishes oppressive regimes for their censorship of the Internet, a group of powerful Senators -- Republicans and Democrats alike -- have signed onto a bill that would vastly expand the government's power to censor the Internet.

    The Combating Online Infringement and Counterfeits Act (COICA) was introduced just one week ago, but it's greased and ready to move, with a hearing in front of the Judiciary Committee this Thursday. If people don't speak out, US citizens could soon find themselves joining Iranians and Chinese in being blocked from accessing broad chunks of the public Internet.

    Help us stop this bill in its tracks! Click here to sign our petition.

    COICA creates two blacklists of Internet domain names. Courts could add sites to the first list; the Attorney General would have control over the second. Internet service providers and others (everyone from Comcast to PayPal to Google AdSense) would be required to block any domains on the first list. They would also receive immunity (and presumably the good favor of the government) if they block domains on the second list.

    The lists are for sites "dedicated to infringing activity," but that's defined very broadly -- any domain name where counterfeit goods or copyrighted material are "central to the activity of the Internet site" could be blocked.

    One example of what this means in practice: sites like YouTube could be censored in the US. Copyright holders like Viacom often argue copyrighted material is central to the activity of YouTube, but under current US law, YouTube is perfectly legal as long as they take down copyrighted material when they're informed about it -- which is why Viacom lost to YouTube in court.

    But if COICA passes, Viacom wouldn't even need to prove YouTube is doing anything illegal to get it shut down -- as long as they can persuade the courts that enough other people are using it for copyright infringement, the whole site could be censored.
    None of this is really surprising under the socialist regime of Barack Hussein Obama and his cohort from the People's Republic of San Francisco. So will Democrats take the credit for this. We have a poll asking this very sort of question.
    Last edited by American; 10-08-10 at 01:24 PM.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •