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Thread: good for her. old lady shoots punk kid

  1. #341
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    Re: good for her. old lady shoots punk kid

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    How are you sure the other person is not concealing his own firearm? If you brandish yours and he then continues to be an agressor, your spidey senses should be tingling.

    What if that warning shot "jams", etc.... You just dun gave up your upper hand.
    Concealment would go into the equation for determining "likely" to have a firearm. For there to even be consideration of a warning shot, a non-concealed firearm could not be present. If one fires a warning shot in teh presence of a know firearm, they are asking to be shot.

    I don't necessarily think spidey senses are required for that determination of likelihood of concealment.

    And if the gun jams, that is a potential consequence of choosing a warning shot, which also must be factored into the equation. Generally, a warning shot shouldn't even be considered unless someone is fairly certain a warning shot alone will help them achieve the goal that they desire. i.e. it shouldn't be used in situations where one reasonably expects that the warning shot will not instantly gain the desired response (i.e. the threat runs like hell).
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 10-05-10 at 12:15 PM.
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  2. #342
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    Re: good for her. old lady shoots punk kid

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Concealment would go into the equation for determining "likely" to have a firearm. For there to even be consideration of a warning shot, a non-concealed firearm could not be present. If one fires a warning shot in teh presence of a know firearm, they are asking to be shot.

    that seems like a lot of speculation. As I've stated before over and over again, you have the rest of your life to win a gunfight. i think tipping your hand on assumptions is not indicated in any scenario.


    I don't necessarily think spidey senses are required for that determination of likelihood of concealment.

    Well, guy could be armed, on drugs, or maybe just real horny for you. you don't know.


    rest of your life, gun fight.......





    And if the gun jams, that is a potential consequence of choosing a warning shot, which also must be factored into the equation. Generally, a warning shot shouldn't even be considered unless someone is fairly certain a warning shot alone will help them achieve the goal that they desire. i.e. it shouldn't be used in situations where one reasonably expects that the warning shot will not instantly gain the desired response (i.e. the threat runs like hell).

    Which unless you are in the mind of an agressor, how do you know. If brandishing said weapon is not enough of an impetus to cause the agressor to egress the situation, the opinion that a warning shot will, are in my opinion, left wanting.
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  3. #343
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    Re: good for her. old lady shoots punk kid

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    that seems like a lot of speculation. As I've stated before over and over again, you have the rest of your life to win a gunfight. i think tipping your hand on assumptions is not indicated in any scenario.
    It's no more speculative than assuming that they are carrying concealed and acting accordingly. You should know already that emotionally-charged catchphrases like "you have the rest of your life to win a gunfight" don't do much for me, Rev. First time I saw it I fond it slightly humorous, now it's just old. It isn't nearly as profound as you may think.

    Because if the other person doesn't have a gun, you were never in a gunfight. You just shot someone. I can go around pretending I'm in gunfights all day long by just going around shooting people, it won't mean I was in a gunfight.

    If someone is incapable of making smart and calculated decisions about the situation they find themselves in, they really shouldn't be in possesion of a gun. This is because without the ability to make intelligent choices, they are more of a danger to themselves and those around them than they are to actual threats.

    Now, generally, I don't think warning shots should be issued at all. But there may arise a situation where it is the best option available. I think it is folly to eliminate it as a potential resource simply because one really really likes pithy catchphrases.


    Well, guy could be armed, on drugs, or maybe just real horny for you. you don't know.
    If someone is not capable of assessing the situation, they probably shouldn't possess a gun. I'm not saying there should be a legal prohibition, but if they cannot accurately recognize the level of threat they are facing, they are not going to be safe to themselves or others while they wield their firearm.


    rest of your life, gun fight.......
    Shooting someone who does not have a gun is not a gunfight.


    Which unless you are in the mind of an agressor, how do you know. If brandishing said weapon is not enough of an impetus to cause the agressor to egress the situation, the opinion that a warning shot will, are in my opinion, left wanting.
    I'm assuming that there is little to no time between the brandishment of the weapon and the firing of the weapon. In fact, you are contradicting yourself here, rev. Did you not say "If I pull a gun, it's because I intend to use it."

    Waving it about ain't using it. If I pull a gun, as a civilian, it will be fired. I would never point a gun at someone and not fire it. I'm not a cop or a soldier. I'm not making a movie. Therefore, I have no legitimate reason to have my gun out and not fire it.

    So the theory behind a warning shot would be a visual and auditory cue to get the **** out of dodge for an aggressor when you are fairly confident the aggressor is not carrying a firearm of his own. Granted, I probably wouldn't use it myself, but I would not automatically exclude it as a possible action simply because I feel that the situation it would be useful in is unlikely.

    The general rule of thumb I have is that if I'm pulling a gun, it's going to be fired, and if I'm pulling a gun, I'm in deadly danger and no warning shot would occur. But I do not automatically exclude the potential situation where a warning shot might be the best tactic.
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  4. #344
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    Re: good for her. old lady shoots punk kid

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    It's no more speculative than assuming that they are carrying concealed and acting accordingly. You should know already that emotionally-charged catchphrases like "you have the rest of your life to win a gunfight" don't do much for me, Rev. First time I saw it I fond it slightly humorous, now it's just old. It isn't nearly as profound as you may think.

    Because if the other person doesn't have a gun, you were never in a gunfight. You just shot someone. I can go around pretending I'm in gunfights all day long by just going around shooting people, it won't mean I was in a gunfight.

    Ahh, it's not as profound as you simply are not catching on. If you one party has a gun, you or the other person, you are indeed in a gun fight. And no that does not mean shooting people everywhere or what not, but rather, one must understand the gravity of the situation, if you are reluctant to shoot someone and instead think "oh, I'll shoot to wound" or "I'll fire a warning shot", these are cop outs on the hard decisions that need to be made when one chooses to arm themselves. If you are not willing to without reservation pull and fire your weapon at a threat to your life until that threat is stopped, one should take stock as to why and if they should be carrying.




    If someone is incapable of making smart and calculated decisions about the situation they find themselves in, they really shouldn't be in possesion of a gun. This is because without the ability to make intelligent choices, they are more of a danger to themselves and those around them than they are to actual threats.
    Teach me to start typing before reading your whole post.


    But I will say this, introducing a gun to an altercation is when the life and death decision should be made. Not hesitation of "warning shots" or "shooting to wound" obviously I am of the belief that the tool has one specific purpose, scaring is not one of them. (well I did scare off a bear once.... )






    Now, generally, I don't think warning shots should be issued at all. But there may arise a situation where it is the best option available. I think it is folly to eliminate it as a potential resource simply because one really really likes pithy catchphrases.

    But it's a great "catch phrase"..... absorb it.... carress it, make it your bitch.



    If someone is not capable of assessing the situation, they probably shouldn't possess a gun. I'm not saying there should be a legal prohibition, but if they cannot accurately recognize the level of threat they are facing, they are not going to be safe to themselves or others while they wield their firearm.

    Absolutley, this woman assessed correctly in my opinion, her mistake was "Warning shots"...

    See legally another issue with "shooting to wound" or "warning shots" is it shows that one does not believe that lethal force was needed at that time, and therefore opens the door to prosecutor shennenigans of "attempted murder", and "attempted manslaughter" charges... I have a link somewhere that goes into this deeply.



    Shooting someone who does not have a gun is not a gunfight.

    Sure it is.... See it's deeper than you think.

    That brick throwing savage was in a gun fight, he just didn't notice.





    I'm assuming that there is little to no time between the brandishment of the weapon and the firing of the weapon. In fact, you are contradicting yourself here, rev. Did you not say "If I pull a gun, it's because I intend to use it."

    Identify threat, draw, aim, shout to desist stop, etc, if fails, shoot center mass until threat is eliminated, assess for more threats.



    Waving it about ain't using it. If I pull a gun, as a civilian, it will be fired. I would never point a gun at someone and not fire it. I'm not a cop or a soldier. I'm not making a movie. Therefore, I have no legitimate reason to have my gun out and not fire it.
    ok....




    So the theory behind a warning shot would be a visual and auditory cue to get the **** out of dodge for an aggressor when you are fairly confident the aggressor is not carrying a firearm of his own. Granted, I probably wouldn't use it myself, but I would not automatically exclude it as a possible action simply because I feel that the situation it would be useful in is unlikely.

    Pointing at the young gentleman and stating to drop the brick, 3,2,1, click, is all the "warning" needed.




    The general rule of thumb I have is that if I'm pulling a gun, it's going to be fired, and if I'm pulling a gun, I'm in deadly danger and no warning shot would occur. But I do not automatically exclude the potential situation where a warning shot might be the best tactic.


    I can see this position.
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 10-05-10 at 12:59 PM.
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  5. #345
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    Re: good for her. old lady shoots punk kid

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    See legally another issue with "shooting to wound" or "warning shots" is it shows that one does not believe that lethal force was needed at that time, and therefore opens the door to prosecutor shennenigans of "attempted murder", and "attempted manslaughter" charges... I have a link somewhere that goes into this deeply.
    Essentially we are agreeing with each other (except that I think that a gunfight requires two or more guns). In general, if you think a warning shot is necessary, then the situation doesn't really call for lethal force. But I would say that it is possible that there can exist situations where lethal force is not required, but the only option available is a warning shot.

    Since this woman was attempting to fire a warning shot, I have to say that she is both a **** shot and that she shouldn't have been firing the weapon at all.

    This was not a situation I would say fell into the potential warning shot category. It was either shoot to kill or don't shoot at all. She failed to do either of those.
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  6. #346
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    Re: good for her. old lady shoots punk kid

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Essentially we are agreeing with each other (except that I think that a gunfight requires two or more guns). In general, if you think a warning shot is necessary, then the situation doesn't really call for lethal force. But I would say that it is possible that there can exist situations where lethal force is not required, but the only option available is a warning shot.

    Since this woman was attempting to fire a warning shot, I have to say that she is both a **** shot and that she shouldn't have been firing the weapon at all.

    This was not a situation I would say fell into the potential warning shot category. It was either shoot to kill or don't shoot at all. She failed to do either of those.

    I basically agree. Where i diverge is that if you feel you need to fire a warning shot, it's at the level where you shouldn't....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #347
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    Re: good for her. old lady shoots punk kid

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I basically agree. Where i diverge is that if you feel you need to fire a warning shot, it's at the level where you shouldn't....
    I'm thinking of situations where it isn't at a level where lethal force is necessary but no other options exist for the person but a warning shot.

    I would say they are very unlikely situations, but I am assuming that they are possible.
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  8. #348
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    Re: good for her. old lady shoots punk kid

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I'm thinking of situations where it isn't at a level where lethal force is necessary but no other options exist for the person but a warning shot.

    I would say they are very unlikely situations, but I am assuming that they are possible.


    The Good Reverend's warning shots are usually two in the chest and one in the head.....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  9. #349
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    Re: good for her. old lady shoots punk kid

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    The Good Reverend's warning shots are usually two in the chest and one in the head.....
    Waste of a perfectly good head to mount.
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  10. #350
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    Re: good for her. old lady shoots punk kid

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    The Good Reverend's warning shots are usually two in the chest and one in the head.....
    One shot one kill.

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