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Thread: A turning point for American healthcare.

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    Re: A turning point for American healthcare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    but it does go counter to the goals of healthcare in general.
    I dunno if that's true. The way to ensure you have best of everything possible (doctors, medication, equipment) is to allow profit. By removing profit, you also remove the future medical discoveries, or at least severely limit them, and you prevent the smartest and most capable from becoming doctors.

    The reason most medical innovations occur in the US, rather than elsewhere, is directly because of the profit motivation and the brain drain that occurs when the most intelligent leave other countries to come here where the profit is available.

    So, if the "goal of health care in general" is to cure and control the most diseases and illnesses possible, then the profit motivation is right in line with that goal. If the "goal of health care in gneral" is to ensure everyone has equal access to less medical care and innovation, then you are correct. Removing the profit margin is right in line with that goal.

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    Re: A turning point for American healthcare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The only way to have the part you like, without a public option, is to make it a requirement that everyone have insurance. The truth is all that many complain about
    is what is required to have what they want.

    If we could have removed the fear mongering misinformation, we might have done a much better job with reform. But that isn't how it worked out. However, my point is that things we're getting worse before reform. Permiums were going up, people were losing insurance, losing coverage. All of this before refrom. Doing nothing wasn't a viable option. Even if it cost more, but more people are covered, we're still better for it. And we can keep working to make it better.
    Except it is NOT a requirement. Do you really think that a young person in his late 20s will buy health insurance for $2 to $3 thousand a year, when he can simply pay a relatively small fine. It's not going to happen. The whole premise of this pig of a bill being cost effective was the assumption that young healthy people would be paying in, but would cost the system very little. It ain't gonna happen.

    And just wait til people see how much this is going to cost them. Do you think a young family of four with a household income of $35,000. will be able to afford this ??? No way. They also have to pay the entire monthly premium and then wait until their taxes are filed and only get a tax credit for the premiums. The tax credit will only pay a small portion of the cost of the health insurance premiums.

    When the details of this pig come to light, the people are going to revolt.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  3. #43
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    Re: A turning point for American healthcare.

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I dunno if that's true. The way to ensure you have best of everything possible (doctors, medication, equipment) is to allow profit. By removing profit, you also remove the future medical discoveries, or at least severely limit them, and you prevent the smartest and most capable from becoming doctors.

    The reason most medical innovations occur in the US, rather than elsewhere, is directly because of the profit motivation and the brain drain that occurs when the most intelligent leave other countries to come here where the profit is available.

    So, if the "goal of health care in general" is to cure and control the most diseases and illnesses possible, then the profit motivation is right in line with that goal. If the "goal of health care in gneral" is to ensure everyone has equal access to less medical care and innovation, then you are correct. Removing the profit margin is right in line with that goal.
    You seem to think it's an "either or" choice. The truth is somewhere in between.
    If life gives you Melons you probably have dyslexia.

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    Re: A turning point for American healthcare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin T. Grey View Post
    You seem to think it's an "either or" choice. The truth is somewhere in between.
    I was responding to someone that indicated that profit is bad in the medical field and, basically, that people should not be allowed to make money. Now, if you want to talk about alternatives to his "no profit" mantra, I am more than happy to listen

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    Re: A turning point for American healthcare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Except it is NOT a requirement. Do you really think that a young person in his late 20s will buy health insurance for $2 to $3 thousand a year, when he can simply pay a relatively small fine. It's not going to happen. The whole premise of this pig of a bill being cost effective was the assumption that young healthy people would be paying in, but would cost the system very little. It ain't gonna happen.

    And just wait til people see how much this is going to cost them. Do you think a young family of four with a household income of $35,000. will be able to afford this ??? No way. They also have to pay the entire monthly premium and then wait until their taxes are filed and only get a tax credit for the premiums. The tax credit will only pay a small portion of the cost of the health insurance premiums.

    When the details of this pig come to light, the people are going to revolt.
    We'll see. And if it doesn't, then maybe we can revisit the better option, the public option. or we can make the consequences larger. And when young people guess wrong, as some surely will and always have, just as they have with auto insurance, we might well have more serious consequences for that as well.

    Instead of whining, however, or pretending doing nothing is a fine option, try helping your representatives roll up their sleeves and do more than block and misrepresent. Help them to the peoples work they were elected for, and not just promote the lying because it helps them on election day.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #46
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    Re: A turning point for American healthcare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We'll see. And if it doesn't, then maybe we can revisit the better option, the public option. or we can make the consequences larger. And when young people guess wrong, as some surely will and always have, just as they have with auto insurance, we might well have more serious consequences for that as well.

    Instead of whining, however, or pretending doing nothing is a fine option, try helping your representatives roll up their sleeves and do more than block and misrepresent. Help them to the peoples work they were elected for, and not just promote the lying because it helps them on election day.
    No, if they get sick, all they have to do is get insurance. No pre-existing restrictions will allow anyone to get health insurance AFTER they get sick. It'll just raise the cost of insurance on everyone else.

    I don't want my representatives to block or misrepresent... I want them to repeal this pig. The only ones that have misrepresented health care reform are the the Dems.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: A turning point for American healthcare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    No, if they get sick, all they have to do is get insurance. No pre-existing restrictions will allow anyone to get health insurance AFTER they get sick. It'll just raise the cost of insurance on everyone else.

    I don't want my representatives to block or misrepresent... I want them to repeal this pig. The only ones that have misrepresented health care reform are the the Dems.
    Again, if that problem actually presents itself, we'll see what comes next. I'll be pulling for a public option.

    And if you supported in any way what little the republicans offered before this bill passed, and any of the lies about death panels or socialism, then you did in fact encourage your representative block and misrepresent.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: A turning point for American healthcare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, if that problem actually presents itself, we'll see what comes next. I'll be pulling for a public option.

    And if you supported in any way what little the republicans offered before this bill passed, and any of the lies about death panels or socialism, then you did in fact encourage your representative block and misrepresent.
    Republican comments on this pig don't come close to the misrepresentation by the Dems. A public option will NEVER be passed in this country.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: A turning point for American healthcare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Republican comments on this pig don't come close to the misrepresentation by the Dems. A public option will NEVER be passed in this country.
    It may not, as fear mongering is very successful here. But, that is why you have this "pig" as you call it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: A turning point for American healthcare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But, that is why you have this "pig" as you call it.
    Not for much longer we won't. It will never take full affect.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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