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Thread: Koch Industries Lawyer to White House: How Did You Get Our Tax Information?

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    Re: Koch Industries Lawyer to White House: How Did You Get Our Tax Information?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    the s corp profit is not taxed until it's distributed. so no corporate income tax is paid, and any distribution of profit to the shareholders is paid at an individual rate.
    The money gets taxed, just the same. It's erroneous to say that s-corps don't pay Federal taxes.

    so, it IS different than publicly held companies, whose dividends are taxed twice.
    The difference is whether not a corporation is an s-corp, or a c-corp. Being public, or private doesn't have anything to do with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Koch Industries Lawyer to White House: How Did You Get Our Tax Information?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The money gets taxed, just the same. It's erroneous to say that s-corps don't pay Federal taxes.



    The difference is whether not a corporation is an s-corp, or a c-corp. Being public, or private doesn't have anything to do with it.
    the s-corp itself does not pay. they avoid corporate taxes, unlike c-corps. very simple. and most publicly held companies are c corps.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Koch Industries Lawyer to White House: How Did You Get Our Tax Information?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The money gets taxed, just the same. It's erroneous to say that s-corps don't pay Federal taxes.



    The difference is whether not a corporation is an s-corp, or a c-corp. Being public, or private doesn't have anything to do with it.
    If a privately owned corporation had a choice to be an S-corp or a C-corp, which do you think they would chose? Duh, they would chose to be an S-corp of course. Especially, a privately owned company like Koch Industries who are extremely outspoken against paying taxes, which is why it's a no brainer to see they are an S corporation. Because if all the dividends and profits from the company go to the Koch brothers, do you seriously believe they would want double taxation on their earnings? Puuuulease, get real.

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    Re: Koch Industries Lawyer to White House: How Did You Get Our Tax Information?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    But Edwards didn't run on a platform of "conservative family values" and he isn't running for office now. But the LYING, CHEATING, SCUMBAG, ADULTERER, SEN. DAVID VITTER, is.....

    David Vitter - Prostitution Scandals

    Vitter was chased down and exposed by Larry Flynt, the owner of HUSTLER MAGAZINE and the guy who saved free speech so the Enquirer could keep exposing their thang.

    Who helps fund David Vitter? Why da Koch's do, who else?

    How Senator Vitter Battled the EPA Over Formaldehyde’s Link to Cancer - ProPublica

    Do you really believe these tea bag politicians give a fig about you?
    I guess missing the point should be expecteded.

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    Re: Koch Industries Lawyer to White House: How Did You Get Our Tax Information?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    If a privately owned corporation had a choice to be an S-corp or a C-corp, which do you think they would chose? Duh, they would chose to be an S-corp of course. Especially, a privately owned company like Koch Industries who are extremely outspoken against paying taxes, which is why it's a no brainer to see they are an S corporation. Because if all the dividends and profits from the company go to the Koch brothers, do you seriously believe they would want double taxation on their earnings? Puuuulease, get real.
    It would all depend. There are pros and cons to both. I, personally, choose a c-corp, because as an s-corp, I would have to keep track of a ****load of payroll taxes. You wanna see real trouble with the IRS? Cock up your payroll taxes and you'll get exactly that.

    Ultimately, all corporations are double taxed--which is bull****. An s-corp has to deal with tons of payroll taxes and a c-corp has to deal with self employment taxes. At least with a c-corp, there are more gray areas to dabble in for right offs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Koch Industries Lawyer to White House: How Did You Get Our Tax Information?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Really? So the state has tax records of private companies that are freely open to anyone that calls?
    Yes. They do. Your state included. Note the link I gave to Adpst. There's even an email option to request the data.

    NO, they do not.
    Fail #1.

    Privately held companies don't have to publicly divulge any tax information
    But they do have to disclose their registration filings in their state registry office. And that registry office is legally obligated to release that information to anyone who asks. You, like Apdst, never learned that structure defines function. By having the Texas Registration office tell the Obama staffer (or more likely some democrat in Texas) what Koch registered with the state as, they simply looked up the S corp IRS code. I already explained this. It's not hard to understand. Well, it shouldn't be.

    Real simple, just for you.
    Koch MUST register with the Texas Office of registration.
    The Texas Office of registration MUST disclose registrations to the public

    See how easy that was?

    which begs the question of how Obama knows or thinks Koch doesn't pay corporate income tax.
    They called the office of registration, asked what Koch was registered as, were told C-corp with S election and then they thanked the clerk. Then they looked up section S and noticed S-corps for the most part don't pay corporate income tax.

    Gill Fail #2.

    Private companies are NOT REQUIRED TO DIVULGE TAX INFORMATION!
    There are you mistaken. Tell me, since when were registrations private information? Tell me, if they are so private, why does the Texas Office of registrations state on its website that you can request company's registration filings for free? (hint: you like adpst are wrong)

    Registration data is not private, but whether Koch paid taxes or not IS private.
    Still not getting it are you? Structure defines function. Btw, registration data IS tax information.

    Is Microsoft privately held?? No, didn't think so.
    Doesn't matter.

    Now, what were you saying about ignorant people??
    I'm laughing louder after your post.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Koch Industries Lawyer to White House: How Did You Get Our Tax Information?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You're totally misintereting that. S-corps do pay federal taxes, they don't pay self employment taxes.
    Fail again.

    S-corps don't pay corporate income tax. They do pay special S-corp related taxes, such as passive investment (once they hit a certain level of passive income to non-passive) and built in gains tax. Furthermore, no non-person entity pays self employment tax. Self employment tax is by definition paid by someone self employed.

    And, if Obama really beleives that there is any corporation that doesn't pay federal income taxes, then he is way-too-damned-stupid to be president.
    There are plenty of corporations that don't pay federal income taxes. S-corps for one if they are non-electing. Corporations that don't make money don't pay federal income taxes. The recession saw likely thousands of corporations not pay federal income taxes. Luckily for them, Dear Ol' Obama enacted a special 5 year NOL carry back! And people say he's anti-business.

    Really, how many times do you have to learn to stop talking about this stuff?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Koch Industries Lawyer to White House: How Did You Get Our Tax Information?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It would all depend. There are pros and cons to both. I, personally, choose a c-corp, because as an s-corp, I would have to keep track of a ****load of payroll taxes.
    You have to keep track of payroll taxes regardless of what entity you are if you employing people. What are you talking about?

    You wanna see real trouble with the IRS? Cock up your payroll taxes and you'll get exactly that.
    That's nothing. Want to see real trouble with the IRS? Ignore the transfer pricing rules.

    There are relatively few reasons to pick a C-corp over an S-corp if you are privately held. An S-corp is taxation wise, superior. It makes little sense for Koch to organize as a C-corp when the main shareholders are the brothers. In their case, a C-corp is another layer of taxation that is functionally unnecessary. And considering how the Koch Brothers are anti-tax, it makes absolutely no sense for them to pick the higher tax system when the benefits of a C-corp just don't exist for them. They don't need the capital raising aspects of the C, nor do they likely need 101 shareholders.

    The only real reason I can think of as to why Koch would organize as a C would be for estate purposes as they could slowly gift out their shares in the corporation to their beneficiaries. But considering how large their stakes in Koch Industries are, they'd need a colossal number of beneficiaries to actually make a dent while avoiding gift tax. And that would effectively dilute the value of the voting shares. Doesn't seem to fit with their style. It does not make sense for Koch to organize as a C-corp.

    Ultimately, all corporations are double taxed--which is bull****. An s-corp has to deal with tons of payroll taxes and a c-corp has to deal with self employment taxes.
    Not really. C-corps have payroll taxes as a function of their employees. As do all firms. Where did you get this crackpot notion that C-corps don't deal with payroll taxes? Why would they be exempted from it? And self employment only affects the active partners which is pretty easy to compute as there generally aren't more then a handful. While big service firms like PwC have a large number of equity partners and therefore have a sizable amount of self employed people, most pass throughs don't have that problem.

    At least with a c-corp, there are more gray areas to dabble in for right offs.
    And you got this notion where? An S-corp is functionally a C-corp in most ways.

    it sounds like you are making **** up about the differences between an S and C corp.

    The real problem with S-corps and C-corps is in valuation.

    C Corporation vs S Corporation vs LLC

    Really, there's not that much of a difference aside from the pass through aspect.

    It's amusing to watch you argue that adamantly anti-tax folks deliberately choose the higher tax structure when the benefits did not outweigh the cost.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 10-08-10 at 02:00 AM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Koch Industries Lawyer to White House: How Did You Get Our Tax Information?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    The issue is NOT their filing status, it's whether they paid any corporate taxes or not.
    Still not connecting the dots are you?

    Filing status = structure
    Structure defines function
    Choosing a pass-through structure free from corporate income tax means...that entity doesn't pay corporate income tax!

    See! Structure defines function. How hard was that?

    Filing status is public information, taxes paid, if any, is private information that no one should have legal access to when the corporation is a privately held S-Corp. Profits from S Corps is paid as individual income.
    Wow. Total fail there Gill. Obama said that Koch doesn't pay federal corporate income tax because it was a pass through. See how he understands how structure defines function?

    Pass through status = no fed corporate income tax.
    KI = Pass through
    KI = No federal corporate income tax.

    How hard was that? Wow transitive logic for the win there.

    Do you want Obama, or anyone else having access to your private tax records ??
    One must wonder what you define as "private." I guess the government knowing I drive a gasoline car means they know I buy gas. STRUCTURE DEFINES FUNCTION. Learn it.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Koch Industries Lawyer to White House: How Did You Get Our Tax Information?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What's baloney, is the idea that an s-corp doesn't pay Federal income taxes. S-corps pay federal income taxes, only the taxes are filed on the 1040 of the owner(s).
    They don't pay federal income taxes.

    United States Code: Title 26,1363. Effect of election on corporation | LII / Legal Information Institute

    That's the I.R.C. Try argue with it.

    How many times are you going to fail in this thread?

    The money gets taxed, just the same.
    No it's not. You realized you just argued that as long as the money gets taxed, then whatever entity generated it got taxed? Do you know how insane that sounds?

    Furthermore, you totally fail to understand the difference between entity and shareholders.

    It's erroneous to say that s-corps don't pay Federal taxes.
    No, it's erroneous to say that S-corps pay federal income tax. Therefore, you are wrong.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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