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Recession Ended in June 2009

Care to try again? New Mexico still has corporate income taxes. Do you mean that the personal income tax was lowered?



Really? You do realize that governors/mayors will often use tax breaks to lure a corporation to their city/state. Cities/States will also use tax breaks to keep corporations from leaving their state.

Nope, I meant corroporate taxes. And it was some time ago. new mexico recent up taxes as I recall.

Yes, governors do use them to lure, but business won't come unless there are other factors that make it desirable. it is kind of like the cherry on top, but not the deciding factor. iowa tries all the time to lure business, but seldom get what they are after, tax cut or not.
 
Nope, I meant corroporate taxes. And it was some time ago. new mexico recent up taxes as I recall.

New Mexico still has corporate taxes. There are only 5 states that do not, and they all happened a VERY long time ago or those states NEVER had corporate income taxes. New Mexico recently lowered person income taxes. This, alledgedly resulted in a lot of gain for the state. That is if the study I read can be trusted.

Yes, governors do use them to lure, but business won't come unless there are other factors that make it desirable. it is kind of like the cherry on top, but not the deciding factor. iowa tries all the time to lure business, but seldom get what they are after, tax cut or not.

You sure do like to dabble in the black and white. I thought it was supposed to be the conservatives that thought that way? No one has ever claimed that coporations will only look at tax rates when deciding where to move. But, it is a larger factor then you want to believe. As stated much earlier in this thread, the CEO's of major corporations are telling you and everyone else why they are not hiring right now. Uncertainty over taxes was only one of those reasons. I realize you think the CEO's are lying, but their comments are what they are.

For example, Illinois recently increased taxes that out of state businesses must pay when doing business in Illinois. Quite a few small businesses, have decided to end their affiliation with Illinois. They will no longer do business in Illinois. Not too long ago Cook county recently raised their tax rates. Guess what many business in cook county did? They moved to other, nearby counties. When businesses have option, all other things being equal, they will move their business where tax rates are lower.
 
Taxes and healthcare costs are, at best, a trediary factor in hiring. Hiring has everything to do with sustainable demand for a product and expected growth and little to do with anything else.

Expense is a factor and the Obamacare will be a huge expense
 
All nice theory, but few companies actually pay tax at the highest corporate rates. The largest US companies largely offshore their profits (many have moved their HQ to Dubai or Grand Cayman or Bermuda, including KPMG), anyway, and pay almost no tax. In fact, 2 out of every 3 corporations pay NO TAX.

Think Progress » ExxonMobil paid no federal income tax in 2009. (Updated) (yes, this is a liberal site)

That said, I would be in favor of lowering corporate tax rates and eliminating many of the transfer pricing loopholes (in other words, make them pay the tax!)

Tax Research UK » Corporation Tax

http://www.treas.gov/offices/tax-policy/library/subpartf.pdf

US Corporations are bearing something on the order of 8% of the Federal tax burden today compared to over 30% 30 years ago (cite forthcoming).

You want personal tax relief? Close corporate loopholes.

So the taxes were to high so they moved yet democrats think raising taxes will help?
 
Someone already pointed out the date. But no matter where they rank, that doesn't automatically prove that was the reason for them leaving. Again, one state did away with taxes all together. So, why did they leave?

What state?
 
I think it was New Mexico, and it wasn't recent.

As for other factors, exactly. Wage and healthcare, as I said, are far larger factors. But taxes, as can be treaced historically, have not played a large role at all.

So why do you question tax when I also said Obamacare?
 
It is a combination of all of the above. State taxes is certainly an issue in the equation.

No, not really. When your business results in a nexus, you get hit by California state income taxes. Not setting up in California has more to do with non-state income tax reasons when you have a nexus within California.
 
So why do you question tax when I also said Obamacare?

I think at one time or another I've argued you're wrong about both. Obama care, as you refer to it (wrongly I might add), is not worse for business then we had. Business was drowning before any reform and people were losing insurance and seeing premiums rise before refrom. Now, a public option would have been more help. And strcitly from a busniess Point of View, they would be estactic with a universal payor, so they would be on a more even playing field with the rest of the modern world. But, healthcare reform is hardly a major problem for business.

Nor are taxes. Business will adjust as soon as people buy. It is really that simple. Our problems are larger than government, and actually are in part a problem of our success. We're doing well here overall, but that means wages are high, benefits good. A busniess makes far more money if they don't have to pay good wages or worry about benefits. This makes employers prefer overseas areas of opperation and we get to be frustrated by outsourced opperators. And instead of realizing what the problems really are, we play stupid partisan and toss around nonsense. And for politiicans, we becoe useful idiots. both parties can use our ignorance to keep on doing the same stuff and never really changing anything, and you can take healthcare reform as a prime example. From claims of socialism to death panels the misinformation created an environment that prevented any real refrom from taking place. We can only hope now that one step can lead to more meaningful efforts.
 
I think at one time or another I've argued you're wrong about both. Obama care, as you refer to it (wrongly I might add), is not worse for business then we had. Business was drowning before any reform and people were losing insurance and seeing premiums rise before refrom. Now, a public option would have been more help. And strcitly from a busniess Point of View, they would be estactic with a universal payor, so they would be on a more even playing field with the rest of the modern world. But, healthcare reform is hardly a major problem for business.

Nor are taxes. Business will adjust as soon as people buy. It is really that simple. Our problems are larger than government, and actually are in part a problem of our success. We're doing well here overall, but that means wages are high, benefits good. A busniess makes far more money if they don't have to pay good wages or worry about benefits. This makes employers prefer overseas areas of opperation and we get to be frustrated by outsourced opperators. And instead of realizing what the problems really are, we play stupid partisan and toss around nonsense. And for politiicans, we becoe useful idiots. both parties can use our ignorance to keep on doing the same stuff and never really changing anything, and you can take healthcare reform as a prime example. From claims of socialism to death panels the misinformation created an environment that prevented any real refrom from taking place. We can only hope now that one step can lead to more meaningful efforts.

Examiner Editorial: Obamacare is even worse than critics thought | Washington Examiner
 

I hope you don't think that editorial convinces me. Should I produce an editorial of my own?

And therein, I think, lies the real reason that Republicans have been fighting so hard. It is not that they think this legislation is the political kiss of death; it's that, in their hearts, they're terrified that it will be a rousing success.

Why Republicans Fear Obama's Healthcare Reform - John A. Farrell (usnews.com)

The health care reform law is an overdue and vital step in the construction of a social safety net, which began after the Great Depression and slowly moved forward — often in a bipartisan manner — until it was interrupted by the Republican Party’s radical antigovernment fervor in the late 20th century.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/24/opinion/24wed1.html

But during his first 20 months in the White House, Obama led the way to making several significant changes that help ordinary Americans and businesses, including:

| Extending unemployment insurance benefits to 96 weeks, helping millions of Americans without jobs to survive after their benefits ran out. The U.S. Senate passed this legislation, 60-40, on July 22, shortly after Carte Goodwin was sworn in to take the late Sen. Robert C. Byrd's seat. These short-term benefits help families keep their houses and cars, take care of their children and keep their bills paid until they are able to find new jobs.

| Signing eight different tax cuts for small businesses into law. A health-care tax credit, a tax credit for hiring unemployed workers and tax incentives to support new investments by small- business owners all help to reward the often-overlooked sector of the economy. If small businesses thrive and hire, everyone does better.


EDITORIAL: Success: 20-month record | Government > Elections & Politics from AllBusiness.com
 
I hope you don't think that editorial convinces me. Should I produce an editorial of my own?

And therein, I think, lies the real reason that Republicans have been fighting so hard. It is not that they think this legislation is the political kiss of death; it's that, in their hearts, they're terrified that it will be a rousing success.

Why Republicans Fear Obama's Healthcare Reform - John A. Farrell (usnews.com)

The health care reform law is an overdue and vital step in the construction of a social safety net, which began after the Great Depression and slowly moved forward — often in a bipartisan manner — until it was interrupted by the Republican Party’s radical antigovernment fervor in the late 20th century.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/24/opinion/24wed1.html

But during his first 20 months in the White House, Obama led the way to making several significant changes that help ordinary Americans and businesses, including:

| Extending unemployment insurance benefits to 96 weeks, helping millions of Americans without jobs to survive after their benefits ran out. The U.S. Senate passed this legislation, 60-40, on July 22, shortly after Carte Goodwin was sworn in to take the late Sen. Robert C. Byrd's seat. These short-term benefits help families keep their houses and cars, take care of their children and keep their bills paid until they are able to find new jobs.

| Signing eight different tax cuts for small businesses into law. A health-care tax credit, a tax credit for hiring unemployed workers and tax incentives to support new investments by small- business owners all help to reward the often-overlooked sector of the economy. If small businesses thrive and hire, everyone does better.


EDITORIAL: Success: 20-month record | Government > Elections & Politics from AllBusiness.com

Nice spin but does nothing for Business that will be taxed because of Obamacare. The expense will cause employers to rethink hiring practices

Unemployment is still happening

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67N3B320100923

Initial claims for state unemployment benefits increased 12,000 to a seasonally adjusted 465,000, the Labor Department said, breaking two straight weeks of declines. Financial markets had forecast claims steady at 450,000.
 
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Nice spin but does nothing for Business that will be taxed because of Obamacare. The expense will cause employers to rethink hiring practices

Unemployment is still happening

Data hints economic soft patch may be easing | Reuters

Initial claims for state unemployment benefits increased 12,000 to a seasonally adjusted 465,000, the Labor Department said, breaking two straight weeks of declines. Financial markets had forecast claims steady at 450,000.

Factually, taxes don't go up.

Health Care Reform | FactCheck.org

More than half of Americans mistakenly believe the overhaul will raise taxes for most people this year, an Associated Press poll finds. But that would be true only if most people were devoted to indoor tanning, which got hit with a sales tax.

Many Americans still don't know what's in health law - Health - Health care - msnbc.com
 
, there is a 100,million unemployed in the usa thats y u have Quantitive Easing,thats what President Bush left in his legacy,haha,also Freedy mac and Fanny mae ran away,and left

you wonderful people that i love, BROKE,omg it is about time you guys thro President Bush in a correction Centre for the rest of his days haha.

mikeey
 
Nice try but how is Obama going to pay for this?

Read the Bill. There is no public option, so Obama doesn't have to pay for that. People have to provide their own insurance for the most part, and the government is only helping those who demonstrate they can't afford it. Some of that is made up by cutting out middle men in education loans, and by one tax on tanning beds, who help make a lot of people sick.

But, investigate and I think you will find you're misunderstood a lot.
 
Nice try but how is Obama going to pay for this?

Most of the postives are going into affect now - they timed that so it would help democrats come election time, it obviously didn't quite work out that way.

Those positives won't require higher government taxes, but will lead to higher insurance premiums. Essentially the same outcome as higher taxes (people will have less take home pay).

Higher taxes and less popular reforms won't occur until later. I believe that was timed so that Obama wouldn't have to answer questions about the negative aspects until after his "reelection".
 
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Most of the postives are going into affect now - they timed that so it would help democrats come election time, it obviously didn't quite work out that way.

The negative aspects of the bill, the costs to the government and the increase in taxes won't be occuring until some time down the road.

Name them, when and where and on who.
 
Name them, when and where and on who.


I edited my post after you had already quoted, but name the higher taxes? Do you not recall that fight with unions about the increased taxes on their health benefits (tax will affect many more people then just unions)? How about the pharmaceutical industry (who will be paying that tax, do you think?)

Anyway, medicare payroll taxed are going up, and medicare tax will begin to be collected for the first time on investment income. The medical expense deduction will be changed, leading to more people not being able to claim the deduction. That's just a few. Maybe you should take the advice you offered to Ptif and actually research the bill. :Shrug:
 
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It ended in June 2009? But where are the jobs? Unemployment rate as of now is 9.6%. Wake me up when the unemployment rate normalizes to 5%.
 
Read the Bill. There is no public option, so Obama doesn't have to pay for that. People have to provide their own insurance for the most part, and the government is only helping those who demonstrate they can't afford it. Some of that is made up by cutting out middle men in education loans, and by one tax on tanning beds, who help make a lot of people sick.

But, investigate and I think you will find you're misunderstood a lot.

so fines are not a tax? HAHAHA
 
Factually, taxes don't go up.

Health Care Reform | FactCheck.org

More than half of Americans mistakenly believe the overhaul will raise taxes for most people this year, an Associated Press poll finds. But that would be true only if most people were devoted to indoor tanning, which got hit with a sales tax.

Many Americans still don't know what's in health law - Health - Health care - msnbc.com

The Obama legal team does not agree with you. Their defense of the HC bill is that this is a tax not a mandate.
 
The Obama legal team does not agree with you. Their defense of the HC bill is that this is a tax not a mandate.

That is only for those who don't carry insurance, if I understand you. So again, this is trying to make something into something it isn't.
 
so fines are not a tax? HAHAHA

Don't you remember Obama saying "it's not a tax, it's not a tax, it's not a tax, it's not a tax, it''s not a tax, it's not a tax, it's not a tax." Then finds out a penality is uncontitutional...and says, it's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax"
 
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