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Thread: Recession Ended in June 2009

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Read the Bill. There is no public option, so Obama doesn't have to pay for that. People have to provide their own insurance for the most part, and the government is only helping those who demonstrate they can't afford it. Some of that is made up by cutting out middle men in education loans, and by one tax on tanning beds, who help make a lot of people sick.

    But, investigate and I think you will find you're misunderstood a lot.
    so fines are not a tax? HAHAHA

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Factually, taxes don't go up.

    Health Care Reform | FactCheck.org

    More than half of Americans mistakenly believe the overhaul will raise taxes for most people this year, an Associated Press poll finds. But that would be true only if most people were devoted to indoor tanning, which got hit with a sales tax.

    Many Americans still don't know what's in health law - Health - Health care - msnbc.com
    The Obama legal team does not agree with you. Their defense of the HC bill is that this is a tax not a mandate.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    The Obama legal team does not agree with you. Their defense of the HC bill is that this is a tax not a mandate.
    That is only for those who don't carry insurance, if I understand you. So again, this is trying to make something into something it isn't.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    so fines are not a tax? HAHAHA
    Yep. And one you don't have to pay if you obey the law. Same as any other law.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    so fines are not a tax? HAHAHA
    Don't you remember Obama saying "it's not a tax, it's not a tax, it's not a tax, it's not a tax, it''s not a tax, it's not a tax, it's not a tax." Then finds out a penality is uncontitutional...and says, it's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax"
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Don't you remember Obama saying "it's not a tax, it's not a tax, it's not a tax, it's not a tax, it''s not a tax, it's not a tax, it's not a tax." Then finds out a penality is uncontitutional...and says, it's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax, it's a tax"
    We'll let the courts figure out what to call it,. but the fact remainds, no one who obeys the law has to pay it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    You do know that simply ignoring the specific increase in taxes that I posted doesn't mean that they don't exist. Nor does it prove that you were correct in claiming that "Obama (the Government) doesn't have to raise new revenue, since there is not a public option".

    BTW, the fine on individuals that don't want or can't afford health insurance is a new tax. Who cares who it's being assessed too. Even the requirement forcing individuals to purchase insurance can in some ways be considered a new tax. It's an obligation that is being forced upon us by the government that will have the same result as a traditional tax - less money to spend by those being required by the government to purchase.

    Tax | Define Tax at Dictionary.com
    1. a sum of money demanded by a government for its support or for specific facilities or services, levied upon incomes, property, sales, etc.
    2. a burdensome charge, obligation, duty, or demand.
    Last edited by buck; 09-24-10 at 12:50 PM.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    You do know that simply ignoring the specific increase in taxes that I posted doesn't mean that they don't exist. Nor does it prove that you were correct in claiming that "Obama (the Government) doesn't have to raise new revenue, since there is not a public option".

    BTW, the fine on individuals that don't want or can't afford health insurance is a new tax. Who cares who it's being assessed too. Even the requirement forcing individuals to purchase insurance can in some ways be considered a new tax. It's an obligation that is being forced upon us by the government that will have the same result as a traditional tax - less money to spend by those being required by the government to purchase.

    Tax | Define Tax at Dictionary.com
    Didn't see your post. Otherwise I would have replyed.

    I'll take the second part first. Again, don't care what you call it, if you obey the law, there's nothing you have to pay. No different than any other similar law.

    Now, those you mention are quite limited and don't apply to most. A large majority of people and business will see nothing. high income and cadillac policies will see increases. Some business will actually get tax credits, negating the overall tax burden.

    Being disingenuous about the this is not helpful. There is no real tax burden and most simply won't see any tax increase. Again, read the bill for understanding, and not for partisan games. ;0

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Didn't see your post. Otherwise I would have replyed.

    I'll take the second part first. Again, don't care what you call it, if you obey the law, there's nothing you have to pay. No different than any other similar law.

    Now, those you mention are quite limited and don't apply to most. A large majority of people and business will see nothing. high income and cadillac policies will see increases. Some business will actually get tax credits, negating the overall tax burden.

    Being disingenuous about the this is not helpful. There is no real tax burden and most simply won't see any tax increase. Again, read the bill for understanding, and not for partisan games. ;0
    Well, yeah. if you're just going to minimize all of the new taxes contained in this bill, then I guess, at least in some alternate universe, you're quite correct. However, there are a whole lot of new taxes in this bill.

    And I have no doubt the costs will be much higher than estimated by the CBO due to a variety of reasons (bad information, history of understimating medical, etc) which will require the government to come up with new ways to tax us. They'll obviously have to be creative with the taxes so that you can continue to carry their water and claim it's not a tax increase or whatever.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Well, yeah. if you're just going to minimize all of the new taxes contained in this bill, then I guess, at least in some alternate universe, you're quite correct. However, there are a whole lot of new taxes in this bill.

    And I have no doubt the costs will be much higher than estimated by the CBO due to a variety of reasons (bad information, history of understimating medical, etc) which will require the government to come up with new ways to tax us. They'll obviously have to be creative with the taxes so that you can continue to carry their water and claim it's not a tax increase or whatever.
    Some redistribution (of taxes and not wealth), not forgetting tax credits, but for most people, no new taxes at all. And I mean for the vast majority. Most upset will see no new tax at all. And if we're honest, that is what needs to be said, clearly.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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