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Thread: Recession Ended in June 2009

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Care to try again? New Mexico still has corporate income taxes. Do you mean that the personal income tax was lowered?



    Really? You do realize that governors/mayors will often use tax breaks to lure a corporation to their city/state. Cities/States will also use tax breaks to keep corporations from leaving their state.
    Nope, I meant corroporate taxes. And it was some time ago. new mexico recent up taxes as I recall.

    Yes, governors do use them to lure, but business won't come unless there are other factors that make it desirable. it is kind of like the cherry on top, but not the deciding factor. iowa tries all the time to lure business, but seldom get what they are after, tax cut or not.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nope, I meant corroporate taxes. And it was some time ago. new mexico recent up taxes as I recall.
    New Mexico still has corporate taxes. There are only 5 states that do not, and they all happened a VERY long time ago or those states NEVER had corporate income taxes. New Mexico recently lowered person income taxes. This, alledgedly resulted in a lot of gain for the state. That is if the study I read can be trusted.

    Yes, governors do use them to lure, but business won't come unless there are other factors that make it desirable. it is kind of like the cherry on top, but not the deciding factor. iowa tries all the time to lure business, but seldom get what they are after, tax cut or not.
    You sure do like to dabble in the black and white. I thought it was supposed to be the conservatives that thought that way? No one has ever claimed that coporations will only look at tax rates when deciding where to move. But, it is a larger factor then you want to believe. As stated much earlier in this thread, the CEO's of major corporations are telling you and everyone else why they are not hiring right now. Uncertainty over taxes was only one of those reasons. I realize you think the CEO's are lying, but their comments are what they are.

    For example, Illinois recently increased taxes that out of state businesses must pay when doing business in Illinois. Quite a few small businesses, have decided to end their affiliation with Illinois. They will no longer do business in Illinois. Not too long ago Cook county recently raised their tax rates. Guess what many business in cook county did? They moved to other, nearby counties. When businesses have option, all other things being equal, they will move their business where tax rates are lower.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Look at the date of your article.

    High Corporate Tax Rate Is Misleading - Investing - Economy - SmartMoney.com

    Second, no one gives a **** about statutory rates. US marginal effective is quite low when you account for the tax loops.
    You forget state and local tax

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Taxes and healthcare costs are, at best, a trediary factor in hiring. Hiring has everything to do with sustainable demand for a product and expected growth and little to do with anything else.
    Expense is a factor and the Obamacare will be a huge expense

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    All nice theory, but few companies actually pay tax at the highest corporate rates. The largest US companies largely offshore their profits (many have moved their HQ to Dubai or Grand Cayman or Bermuda, including KPMG), anyway, and pay almost no tax. In fact, 2 out of every 3 corporations pay NO TAX.

    Think Progress ExxonMobil paid no federal income tax in 2009. (Updated) (yes, this is a liberal site)

    That said, I would be in favor of lowering corporate tax rates and eliminating many of the transfer pricing loopholes (in other words, make them pay the tax!)

    Tax Research UK Corporation Tax

    http://www.treas.gov/offices/tax-pol...y/subpartf.pdf

    US Corporations are bearing something on the order of 8% of the Federal tax burden today compared to over 30% 30 years ago (cite forthcoming).

    You want personal tax relief? Close corporate loopholes.
    So the taxes were to high so they moved yet democrats think raising taxes will help?

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Someone already pointed out the date. But no matter where they rank, that doesn't automatically prove that was the reason for them leaving. Again, one state did away with taxes all together. So, why did they leave?
    What state?

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think it was New Mexico, and it wasn't recent.

    As for other factors, exactly. Wage and healthcare, as I said, are far larger factors. But taxes, as can be treaced historically, have not played a large role at all.
    So why do you question tax when I also said Obamacare?

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    It is a combination of all of the above. State taxes is certainly an issue in the equation.
    No, not really. When your business results in a nexus, you get hit by California state income taxes. Not setting up in California has more to do with non-state income tax reasons when you have a nexus within California.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So why do you question tax when I also said Obamacare?
    I think at one time or another I've argued you're wrong about both. Obama care, as you refer to it (wrongly I might add), is not worse for business then we had. Business was drowning before any reform and people were losing insurance and seeing premiums rise before refrom. Now, a public option would have been more help. And strcitly from a busniess Point of View, they would be estactic with a universal payor, so they would be on a more even playing field with the rest of the modern world. But, healthcare reform is hardly a major problem for business.

    Nor are taxes. Business will adjust as soon as people buy. It is really that simple. Our problems are larger than government, and actually are in part a problem of our success. We're doing well here overall, but that means wages are high, benefits good. A busniess makes far more money if they don't have to pay good wages or worry about benefits. This makes employers prefer overseas areas of opperation and we get to be frustrated by outsourced opperators. And instead of realizing what the problems really are, we play stupid partisan and toss around nonsense. And for politiicans, we becoe useful idiots. both parties can use our ignorance to keep on doing the same stuff and never really changing anything, and you can take healthcare reform as a prime example. From claims of socialism to death panels the misinformation created an environment that prevented any real refrom from taking place. We can only hope now that one step can lead to more meaningful efforts.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think at one time or another I've argued you're wrong about both. Obama care, as you refer to it (wrongly I might add), is not worse for business then we had. Business was drowning before any reform and people were losing insurance and seeing premiums rise before refrom. Now, a public option would have been more help. And strcitly from a busniess Point of View, they would be estactic with a universal payor, so they would be on a more even playing field with the rest of the modern world. But, healthcare reform is hardly a major problem for business.

    Nor are taxes. Business will adjust as soon as people buy. It is really that simple. Our problems are larger than government, and actually are in part a problem of our success. We're doing well here overall, but that means wages are high, benefits good. A busniess makes far more money if they don't have to pay good wages or worry about benefits. This makes employers prefer overseas areas of opperation and we get to be frustrated by outsourced opperators. And instead of realizing what the problems really are, we play stupid partisan and toss around nonsense. And for politiicans, we becoe useful idiots. both parties can use our ignorance to keep on doing the same stuff and never really changing anything, and you can take healthcare reform as a prime example. From claims of socialism to death panels the misinformation created an environment that prevented any real refrom from taking place. We can only hope now that one step can lead to more meaningful efforts.
    Examiner Editorial: Obamacare is even worse than critics thought | Washington Examiner

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