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Thread: Recession Ended in June 2009

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Wow....

    Who could have... would have thought; large corporations are making comments that express their desire for lower taxes.

    My question to you is: Why was intel able to secure hefty profits during an era of higher taxes (1994-2000)? What was the difference between then and now?
    Do you really not see any differences in the number of uncertanties between then and now? Paul Otellini of Intel named them... Health care costs... Cap and trade... new regulations...

    Their comments (and many other CEO's have made similar comments) make it clear that due to the current enviroment and uncertainty, they will increase hiring and expansion to other countries. To assume, as Boo does, that this will not hurt hiring in America.. Wow...

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Fact is, manufactoring was in trouble in 2002. Who were they blaming then? And with tax cuts, why didn't manufactoring boom?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Fact is, manufactoring was in trouble in 2002. Who were they blaming then? And with tax cuts, why didn't manufactoring boom?
    They were blaming outsourcing, which was accurate. The CEO's are saying that they see a potential cap and trade policy, health care reform, regulations, etc increasing the cost of doing business. So, they are going to increase their efforts to hire outside of the country where the enviroment is more business friendly. They don't want to make large investments at home.

    Currently, there are many jobs that are not particuarly beneficial to outsource (from a cost benefit perspective). As costs continue to increase at home - due to the previously mentioned items - that entire metric can change. While the job may not have been cost effective to outsource, it now is.

    You can see the same thing happening between states. As the cost of doing business in the state increases (due to taxes, etc) companies become more likely to move to a different state.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Do you really not see any differences in the number of uncertanties between then and now? Paul Otellini of Intel named them... Health care costs... Cap and trade... new regulations...
    Of course. They were not forced to internalize future tax increases as the US budget was in good shape at that time. However health care costs were subsidized to a great extent, all the while inflation within that particular sector was near double digits; yet this was not an issue of spilling over to taxpayers because the US surplus was set to reduce the national debt in the tune of trillions of dollars.

    Their comments (and many other CEO's have made similar comments) make it clear that due to the current enviroment and uncertainty, they will increase hiring and expansion to other countries. To assume, as Boo does, that this will not hurt hiring in America.. Wow...
    As was the same partisan hackery when the FDIC (they claimed it would end private enterprise) was established, medicare was introduced (they claimed we were becoming socialists), and when FDA/SEC regulations (they claimed that it would force costs to skyrocket) were put in place. Hmmmm.

    How did that all work out?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    They were blaming outsourcing, which was accurate. The CEO's are saying that they see a potential cap and trade policy, health care reform, regulations, etc increasing the cost of doing business. So, they are going to increase their efforts to hire outside of the country where the enviroment is more business friendly. They don't want to make large investments at home.

    Currently, there are many jobs that are not particuarly beneficial to outsource (from a cost benefit perspective). As costs continue to increase at home - due to the previously mentioned items - that entire metric can change. While the job may not have been cost effective to outsource, it now is.

    You can see the same thing happening between states. As the cost of doing business in the state increases (due to taxes, etc) companies become more likely to move to a different state.
    Are you infering that we should lower our standards so to re-establish a labor comparative advantage during a time when our capital comparative advantage provides a greater positive long term growth outlook? Great idea; strive to be like China (who is striving to be like us).
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    As was the same partisan hackery when the FDIC (they claimed it would end private enterprise) was established, medicare was introduced (they claimed we were becoming socialists), and when FDA/SEC regulations (they claimed that it would force costs to skyrocket) were put in place. Hmmmm.

    How did that all work out?
    I have no idea. I didnít get my crystal ball that will allow me to see how things would be if certain legislation hadnít been passed. Would things have been better?

    BTW, I read a decent opinion piece not too long ago about how Medicare/Medicaid is responsible for much of the medical inflation we have had since they were implemented. Just as an aside. Not something I particularly want to discuss, but just lends credence that we just donít know how things would have been otherwise.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Are you infering that we should lower our standards so to re-establish a labor comparative advantage during a time when our capital comparative advantage provides a greater positive long term growth outlook? Great idea; strive to be like China (who is striving to be like us).
    Yes, I do not believe that cap and trade is good legislation and it will lead to increased and unnecessary costs - and cost jobs. I also feel the same way about the health care reform that was recently passed. Additionally, while I think some regulation is good, I think there is such a thing as too much regulation. Have we reached that point? I am not certain. However, I can tell you that many CEO’s of some of the world’s largest corporations seem to think so, or are at least worried about what is next.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Yes, I do not believe that cap and trade is good legislation and it will lead to increased and unnecessary costs - and cost jobs. I also feel the same way about the health care reform that was recently passed. Additionally, while I think some regulation is good, I think there is such a thing as too much regulation. Have we reached that point? I am not certain. However, I can tell you that many CEO’s of some of the world’s largest corporations seem to think so, or are at least worried about what is next.
    Your opinions are noted.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It fits the definition of a recession, but it does not imply that we've actually recovered fully.
    Actually, there's no such thing as full recovery. At best unemployment will still be 4 to 5 percent, people will still lose their houses and cars, rental, poverty, and inflation will be about the same, businesses and banks will still fail, and health costs will keep going up.

    ricksfolly

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nope. As soon as they know people are spending, they'll hire just fine. there is no evidence to support your claim at all.
    So the rise in expense Obama has put on them has no influence on their business model this year? HAHAHA thats funny.

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