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Thread: Recession Ended in June 2009

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't think I've argued there will be no expense. It may well cost more, but i'm not sure that is proven with certainty. I have argued that we will almost certainly get more for the cost.

    But I agree that this bill satisfies no one, and that is the problem. My biggest problem, however, was in the way it was demoized almost from the beginning, taken it from a rational discussion to the fear mongering we saw. From claims of socialims to death panels, the discussion went silly and this played a major role in the failing of the bill. It kept the discourse from being about what was best, and left us with getting something so improvement would even be possible.

    I have some blame for both parties on this. But it has historically been the nature of the healthcare debate, and this saddens me a great deal.
    I agree that the discussion on both sides sought to put their opponents in the worst possible light. Historically for something like this to really work means that there is a lot of behind the scenes negotiations BEFORE the public evens knows the talks are going on. The problem with this is that neither side gets to claim victory but has to share it.

    People are tired with the result we get. The Tea Party may be flawed but it was an attempt to say we are mad and won't take it anymore. They got demonized by the left so gravitated to the right. When I was growing up the people fed up with the staus quo mostly turned to the dems. I think most tea party folks would vote for neither party if they got a chance. Saying that some of their candidates seem to be dingbats.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I agree that the discussion on both sides sought to put their opponents in the worst possible light. Historically for something like this to really work means that there is a lot of behind the scenes negotiations BEFORE the public evens knows the talks are going on. The problem with this is that neither side gets to claim victory but has to share it.

    People are tired with the result we get. The Tea Party may be flawed but it was an attempt to say we are mad and won't take it anymore. They got demonized by the left so gravitated to the right. When I was growing up the people fed up with the staus quo mostly turned to the dems. I think most tea party folks would vote for neither party if they got a chance. Saying that some of their candidates seem to be dingbats.
    The tea party lost me at the town halls. When they started shouting down folks with misinformation, and acting so ignorantly, they lost me. And when republicans like grassley, someone I've voted for often, appeased them, he lost my support.

    When Stewart asks for a return to reason, that is what resonates with me. Sure, he's being a comedian, but I would so welcome a rational discoourse that valued real information over misinformation. And I would welcome a movement that went that direction. The tea Party did not.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The tea party lost me at the town halls. When they started shouting down folks with misinformation, and acting so ignorantly, they lost me. And when republicans like grassley, someone I've voted for often, appeased them, he lost my support.

    When Stewart asks for a return to reason, that is what resonates with me. Sure, he's being a comedian, but I would so welcome a rational discoourse that valued real information over misinformation. And I would welcome a movement that went that direction. The tea Party did not.
    I don't know anyone who is part of the tea party so I really do not know. They seem to be frustrated at what is going on. They are probably like the average American who really knows little about the issues. The ranting is very hard to stomach, but the lack of thoughtful government by people who should be able to act like grown ups is also pretty terrible.

    Getting back to HC, how is it possible that a bill passed by dems would not even fix the prices Medicare pays for drugs. How do we mandate people join an insurance scheme that has worked so poorly for so many. The whole system needed fixing, not just adding a bunch of people to something that is already going to bankrupt the country.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I don't know anyone who is part of the tea party so I really do not know. They seem to be frustrated at what is going on. They are probably like the average American who really knows little about the issues. The ranting is very hard to stomach, but the lack of thoughtful government by people who should be able to act like grown ups is also pretty terrible.

    Getting back to HC, how is it possible that a bill passed by dems would not even fix the prices Medicare pays for drugs. How do we mandate people join an insurance scheme that has worked so poorly for so many. The whole system needed fixing, not just adding a bunch of people to something that is already going to bankrupt the country.
    I certainly agree more needed to be done. While I favor a single payer, the public option seemed like the best compromise to me. I do wish there had been the will to push for better otpions. Hopefully leaders can weather this storm and later do more to fix what passed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I certainly agree more needed to be done. While I favor a single payer, the public option seemed like the best compromise to me. I do wish there had been the will to push for better otpions. Hopefully leaders can weather this storm and later do more to fix what passed.
    What has me most annoyed with what happened is the fear they won't go back and fix it. Obama gets to check one off his list. Don't blame him for not wanting to back to the well on this one. That id why I had said at the time it was better than no bill than one that did so relatively little.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Do you agree?

    Recession Ended in June 2009 - Real Time Economics - WSJ

    The National Bureau of Economic Research, the arbiter of the start and end dates of a recession, determined that the recession that began in December 2007 ended in June 2009.
    Someone forgot to tell the American public.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Well, I've noticed that people with bachelor's degrees are no longer applying to be my assistants, as they were in 2008.
    Therefore, I assume the job market has improved in the interim, and people are now able to find employment more commensurate with their education and experience.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    What has me most annoyed with what happened is the fear they won't go back and fix it. Obama gets to check one off his list. Don't blame him for not wanting to back to the well on this one. That id why I had said at the time it was better than no bill than one that did so relatively little.
    That is a real fear. But all I can do is keep writing my congressial leaders urging them to revisit and try to improve. I accept that you can't take a second step until you take a first, but you have to willing to take that second step as well.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That is a real fear. But all I can do is keep writing my congressial leaders urging them to revisit and try to improve. I accept that you can't take a second step until you take a first, but you have to willing to take that second step as well.
    I've written to my congressman. Telling him how disappointed I was in his record, that I intend to vote for his competitor and then hope for a real democrat in 2012.

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    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Someone forgot to tell the American public.
    But clearly Corporate America and its shareholders have noticed. Hence the increased volume on high dividend stocks recently.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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