Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 89101112 LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 113

Thread: Recession Ended in June 2009

  1. #91
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    All businesses pay taxes on their profits, including health care industries, been doing it long before I was born, so why is it an issue now?

    ricksfolly
    Really? You don't say.

    Taxes were just increased on the medical industry. Democrats are free to do so. I only have an issue when individuals that love the reforms begin to claim that no one will be affected by the increased taxes. Obviously those increased taxes will be passed onto the consumer in the way of higher prices for the product and higher insurance premiums.

    Way to stick it to those evil corporations.

  2. #92
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Again, look at my second sentence. I agree, however in a free society it is usually up to people to decide. If the HC plan was a single payor then we would not have to worry about this.
    And I agree with your last sentence.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #93
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Which doesn't make it any less the law right now. How it will end up is debatable and we'll have to wait an see on. But, the fact is, if it stays the law, all you have to do is obey the law.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #94
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,356

    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Which doesn't make it any less the law right now. How it will end up is debatable and we'll have to wait an see on. But, the fact is, if it stays the law, all you have to do is obey the law.
    When obeying the law causes businesses to close down, because they can no longer afford to operate, then there is something seriously ****ed up with that law.

    A scenario like that, or a scenario where products become to too expensive for people to purchase, or a scenario which includes mass layoffs and/or significant salary cuts, will have a negative effect on the economy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #95
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    When obeying the law causes businesses to close down, because they can no longer afford to operate, then there is something seriously ****ed up with that law.

    A scenario like that, or a scenario where products become to too expensive for people to purchase, or a scenario which includes mass layoffs and/or significant salary cuts, will have a negative effect on the economy.
    Fear mongering does equal fact. nothing in the law is making business close down. That's nothing more than hyperbolic fear mongering.

    And health care has been too expensive for a long time now. You can't blame that on reform either.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #96
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,356

    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Fear mongering does equal fact. nothing in the law is making business close down. That's nothing more than hyperbolic fear mongering.
    Obamacare will cause the scenarios I just listed.

    And health care has been too expensive for a long time now. You can't blame that on reform either.
    And now, it's going to become even MORE expensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #97
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Obamacare will cause the scenarios I just listed.



    And now, it's going to become even MORE expensive.
    I see no reason why it would. I believe your claim is nothing more than fear mongering hyperbole. And while we could have done more to lessen the costs (public option anyone?), it is yet to be proven that it will have to be more expensive. But even if it is, covering more would justify that. remember, it was getting more and more expensive while giving less and less in retrun for the expense.

    It can be better, and I hope our leaders keep working to make it better. But we need honest rational discourse and not the hyperbolic fear mongering that has been the staple of the debate so far.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #98
    Sage

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    8,351

    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I see no reason why it would. I believe your claim is nothing more than fear mongering hyperbole. And while we could have done more to lessen the costs (public option anyone?), it is yet to be proven that it will have to be more expensive. But even if it is, covering more would justify that. remember, it was getting more and more expensive while giving less and less in retrun for the expense.

    It can be better, and I hope our leaders keep working to make it better. But we need honest rational discourse and not the hyperbolic fear mongering that has been the staple of the debate so far.
    In order to have reasonable debate, both sides need to put aside the hyperbole. Are there good things in the bill, yes. To deny that these good things have no cost is silly and I think you know that. If you want to argue that the cost of let's say insurance for kids under 26 or no caps are worth it fine. I for one could agree with that. But to say it has no cost would be intellectually dishonest.

    I think the reason this bill is causing so much angst is that it satisfies almost no one. Some think it is too much of an intrusion others think it was so weak that it missed the boat.

    One thing I have not heard an answer to. Most of the lower income will fall into Medicade so the states will have to pay. Was the cost to states considered when the CBO scored. I doubt it as they were looking at the impact to the Federal budget.

  9. #99
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    In order to have reasonable debate, both sides need to put aside the hyperbole. Are there good things in the bill, yes. To deny that these good things have no cost is silly and I think you know that. If you want to argue that the cost of let's say insurance for kids under 26 or no caps are worth it fine. I for one could agree with that. But to say it has no cost would be intellectually dishonest.

    I think the reason this bill is causing so much angst is that it satisfies almost no one. Some think it is too much of an intrusion others think it was so weak that it missed the boat.

    One thing I have not heard an answer to. Most of the lower income will fall into Medicade so the states will have to pay. Was the cost to states considered when the CBO scored. I doubt it as they were looking at the impact to the Federal budget.
    I don't think I've argued there will be no expense. It may well cost more, but i'm not sure that is proven with certainty. I have argued that we will almost certainly get more for the cost.

    But I agree that this bill satisfies no one, and that is the problem. My biggest problem, however, was in the way it was demoized almost from the beginning, taken it from a rational discussion to the fear mongering we saw. From claims of socialims to death panels, the discussion went silly and this played a major role in the failing of the bill. It kept the discourse from being about what was best, and left us with getting something so improvement would even be possible.

    I have some blame for both parties on this. But it has historically been the nature of the healthcare debate, and this saddens me a great deal.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #100
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,356

    Re: Recession Ended in June 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I see no reason why it would. I believe your claim is nothing more than fear mongering hyperbole. And while we could have done more to lessen the costs (public option anyone?), it is yet to be proven that it will have to be more expensive. But even if it is, covering more would justify that. remember, it was getting more and more expensive while giving less and less in retrun for the expense.

    It can be better, and I hope our leaders keep working to make it better. But we need honest rational discourse and not the hyperbolic fear mongering that has been the staple of the debate so far.
    It's not fear mongering; it's fact.

    Fact #1: businesses that do not provide health coverage--in accordance with the government's standards--will be forced to pay a fine of $2,000 per employee. A company with 100 empoyees--not a very big company at all--will have an additional $200,000 of overhead.

    Fact #2: providing insurance--IAW the government's standards--will cost more than $2,000 a month, per employee.

    And, you insist that this won't have a damaging effect on small businesses? The worst part, is that the working folks are going to be the ones to suffer most, with pay-cuts and layoffs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 89101112 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •