Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 41

Thread: America: Love it or (if you're rich enough) leave it?

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    America: Love it or (if you're rich enough) leave it?

    America: Love it or (if you're rich enough) leave it?

    September 19, 2010 | 11:34 am
    Glen Esnard, a Newport Beach executive for real estate services firm Grubb & Ellis, went to bat in the Wall Street Journal last week for high-income-earners who believe it’s unfair that their tax rates should rise on Jan. 1, as President Obama proposes.

    Esnard also suggested that the answer might be for the better-heeled to find a new country.

    In a letter to the newspaper, Esnard wrote that although he includes himself in the population earning more than $250,000 a year:

    My family isn't wealthy. I have no funded retirement plan save Social Security, if it is there when I need it. I have no guarantee of permanent health care. I am paying off school loans for our three children. A meaningful number of my friends have lost their jobs, and all who are still employed, including my family, have taken significant pay reductions. . . . This is a classless recession, at least in my experience. It is hitting everyone.

    Yet those of us who make $250,000 or more are vilified and held accountable for solving our government's penchant for spending more than it takes in so that politicians can buy votes. We already pay more in taxes than 98% of the population, particularly the nearly 50% of eligible voters who pay no federal income tax. The president wants us to pay more, and he frames it in a way that casts us as not yet carrying our fair share of the burden.

    ...

    Apparently our president thinks that living in America is so wonderful that we will never leave, despite being directly attacked and held responsible for the political class's inability to constrain its desire to buy votes with our money. He should think again.

    Esnard's letter caught the eye of Reuters blogger Felix Salmon, who wasn’t exactly sympathetic.

    I emailed Esnard to ask if he seriously expected high-income-earners to think of leaving the country because their tax rate would rise to 39.6% from 35% (their dividend and capital gains tax rates also would jump), and/or because of Obama's "vilification" campaign, as Esnard put it.

    He responded: "Although I am not an expert, I think it is a real issue. No different than people leaving states for more hospitable locations." He also said he has received a "surprising number of resonant e-mails and voicemails."

    Where could an American tax refugee go?

    Well, makes sense to me. Why work here when you're being robbed? They have skills. Why shouldn't they take those skills and sell them where they get the most use out of them and the most respect for them?

    If a man has savings or enough liquidity, why shouldn't he lay off the superfluous employees and reduce the size of the target on his chest by reducing his income? How many wealthy people are there, right now, wondering if they're best course is to close their business and retire?

    Who's fault will it be if this happens?
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 09-20-10 at 02:01 AM.

  2. #2
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: America: Love it or (if you're rich enough) leave it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Well, makes sense to me. Why work here when you're being robbed? They have skills. Why shouldn't they take those skills and sell them where they get the most use out of them and the most respect for them?

    If a man has savings or enough liquidity, why shouldn't he lay off the superfluous employees and reduce the size of the target on his chest by reducing his income? How many wealthy people are there, right now, wondering if they're best course is to close their business and retire?

    Who's fault will it be if this happens?
    Where are they going to go where there's less taxes? Not Europe. Not Asia.

    So that leaves South America and Africa. Which means what money they won't pay in taxes they will instead pay for private security and kidnapping/ransom insurance.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: America: Love it or (if you're rich enough) leave it?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Where are they going to go where there's less taxes? Not Europe. Not Asia.

    So that leaves South America and Africa. Which means what money they won't pay in taxes they will instead pay for private security and kidnapping/ransom insurance.
    Well, jump right in with the first ignorant response.

    "FYI, Russia wants just 13% of your income if you become a resident. Bulgaria will take a mere 10%. Canada's highest federal tax rate is 29%, but provincial taxes can push the top marginal rate to 48.25%."

    Says so.

    Right there in the link you didn't bother to read.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: America: Love it or (if you're rich enough) leave it?

    Right now, according to the following countries, among others, have lower marginal tax rates than the US. Note that this is before Obama's tax increases will take effect in January.

    20% Armenia
    0% Bahamas
    0% Bahrain
    0% Bermuda
    0% Botswana
    27% Brazil
    10% Bulgaria
    0 % Cayman Islands
    15% Costa Rica (And I know lots of people who say Costa Rica is nice indeed)
    15% Czech Republic
    21% Estonia
    30.5% Finland
    31% Guatemala
    15% Hong Kong
    30% India (an American earning 100k could live like a king there, imagine what someone who's just collecting interest on his now unproductive millions could do there.)
    30% Indonesia
    18% Isle of Man
    25% Jamaica, mon.
    15% Lithuania.

    Yeah, sure, people who have to run a business to continue earning their 250k wouldn't find the business in those countries to make the living, but there's TONS of people who are earning interest or otherwise run businesses that can be home based in one of the above countries, and then what?

    There's also the fact that even if these people just decide to scale back their lifestyle to minimize the Messiah's tax bite, they're not going to be buying as much, and the local economies will suffer by lost sales.

  5. #5
    Guru
    Councilman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Riverside, County, CA.
    Last Seen
    11-04-11 @ 10:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    4,454
    Blog Entries
    10

    Re: America: Love it or (if you're rich enough) leave it?

    IT makes more sense to me to work to replace Obama and the Liberals addicted to raising taxes and spending our Grandchildren's future, with a real fiscal Conservative who knows you can't spend money you don't have to fix the economy then over tax the people who create jobs and start businesses and expect it to help. Anyone who can think knows that's just foolish Liberal nonsense and is just making it worse.

  6. #6
    Global Moderator
    Bodhidarma approves bigly
    Andalublue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granada, España
    Last Seen
    11-29-17 @ 01:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    26,111

    Re: America: Love it or (if you're rich enough) leave it?

    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  7. #7
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,090

    Re: America: Love it or (if you're rich enough) leave it?

    Or move to Gibraltar (on paper) and live on Southern Spain. You pay next to no taxes and have a great quality of life.
    PeteEU

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Ft. Campbell, KY
    Last Seen
    12-31-14 @ 08:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    12,177

    Re: America: Love it or (if you're rich enough) leave it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Well, jump right in with the first ignorant response.

    "FYI, Russia wants just 13% of your income if you become a resident. Bulgaria will take a mere 10%. Canada's highest federal tax rate is 29%, but provincial taxes can push the top marginal rate to 48.25%."

    Says so.

    Right there in the link you didn't bother to read.
    While I'm sure somewhere in the world they can find lower taxes, however a 3% increase isn't THAT much to move yourself and your family half way across the world to a country who's culture and language you don't understand. And seriously, Russia? Bulgaria? Do you know anything about how people live in those countries?
    Last edited by Wiseone; 09-20-10 at 06:18 AM.

  9. #9
    Sage
    Arcana XV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Geneva, Switzerland and Rochester, NY
    Last Seen
    10-22-17 @ 10:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,412

    Re: America: Love it or (if you're rich enough) leave it?

    Unless you have actual millions, leaving the country will not help at all and might even make your situation worse. But if you do have millions, I recommend canton Zug in Switzerland. The taxes are so low it's almost ridiculous.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  10. #10
    Ideologically Impure
    Simon W. Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fayettenam
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,933
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: America: Love it or (if you're rich enough) leave it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Note that this is before Obama's tax increases will take effect in January.
    I was under the impression that these increases were voted on prior to Obama Administration because the politicians wanted to give a tax break but were not willing to come up with corresponding spending cuts. Because they wouldn't come up with spending cuts, the law would only let them pass temporary tax breaks.
    Not a point of debate, but merely of curiosity...
    When did these become Obama's tax increases?
    I may be wrong.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •