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Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

Goldenboy219 said:
If you are in an area where people are not smoking.... Don't smoke there.
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Bull****. If I am outside I will get a few feet away from people and smoke. If they don't like it they can move. If I am with a group I will ask and if someone minds, I'll step away to smoke.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Sorry but smokers don't cost anyone anything more.
Smokers tend to save people money through increases in taxes and being less burdened by the retirement social welfare system.
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Sorry, but yes they do. Millions of people who lived and worked in buildings with smokers were getting cancer from the second hand smoke and dying. Thats a fact. Who knows where that extra cigarette tax really goes, I don't, do you? Because one thing is for sure, the insurance rates still went up. So do you think a higher tax on fast food, sodas and twinkies would cover the cost of the chronically obese medical care as well? Even if it did, which it wouldn't, we would all still have to pay the higher tax plus the increased insurance rates to cover their medical costs. Not to mention the fast food and soda business would object to the government intrusion on their business.

You've heard the old saying, an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure? Programs that help people quit smoking or lose weight or get off drugs are a helluva lot cheaper than paying for their medical costs or incarcerating them.
 
rivrrat said:
It's not a matter of "smoking in front of others". It's a matter of someone who smokes, happens to be in a public place and chooses to smoke. Same with eating a hotdog, or walking their dog, or running around with screaming children. Do you ask the disgusting sloppy eater why they believe eating in front of others is so special? Geez.
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The fat they're chewing doesn't transfer to me.


It always pissed me off to no ****ing end when I worked on the river and at lunch, I would walk off - downwind - of everyone and light up. Sure enough, some ****ing guest would decide to come and sit down near me to eat and then get pissy with ME about my smoking near them. Mother ****ing hell. I couldn't tell THEM to **** off because they were guests of my company, but I ****ing hell wanted to. I would go out of my way to stay away from them and they would go out of their way to come near me and bitch about the smoke.
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Get a patch or try some nic gum.

So yeah, if you're in a public area and you see someone smoking, and smoking bothers you... don't ****ing go near them. Why is that so hard for people to get? Why do people think they need the government to do that for them?
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I never complain about smokers doing their business in a designated smoking area. And why should I care that there are fewer and fewer of these areas.

Comparisons are hard--Coffee, alcohol, unhealthy foods, sodas, these things don't transfer to the person sitting nearby. I'm not going to have the smell of your unhealthy diet on my clothes when I get home. (except grilled onions). Your shots of tequila with a beer back have no effect on my liver. And eat all the fried foods you want, because it can't touch my heart.
 
reefedjib said:
Bull****. If I am outside I will get a few feet away from people and smoke. If they don't like it they can move. If I am with a group I will ask and if someone minds, I'll step away to smoke.
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My statement was a bit rash. But none the less, you exemplify personal responsibility of the smoker.
 
hazlnut said:
The fat they're chewing doesn't transfer to me.
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It can still be offensive.

Get a patch or try some nic gum.
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Nope. You just get the **** away from me. Don't like the smell of smoke? Don't ****ing sit next to someone smoking.


Comparisons are hard--Coffee, alcohol, unhealthy foods, sodas, these things don't transfer to the person sitting nearby. I'm not going to have the smell of your unhealthy diet on my clothes when I get home. (except grilled onions). Your shots of tequila with a beer back have no effect on my liver. And eat all the fried foods you want, because it can't touch my heart.
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Don't sit near me when I'm smoking, and you won't smell my smoke. Pretty ****ing simple.
 
rivrrat said:
Don't sit near me when I'm smoking, and you won't smell my smoke. Pretty ****ing simple.
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This is the attitude that got smoking banned in restaurants and the large city bar scene.
 
They have banned smoking on the Beaches in San Diego. They also banned all alcohol as well.

And Sea community has band smoking on the streets and in you own back yard if a neighbor complains about the smell.

And for those who pay attention the one who posted that to calorie police were coming was not far off.

Soda have come under attack because the kids are too fat.

One day when you swipe member card at the grocery store you will be told you're over weight and are not allowed to buy donuts, os you just bought a 12 pack og Bud yesterday you don't need another one this soon, sorry but it's for your own good.

Belmont CA. is home to America’s most restrictive secondhand smoking law, which now makes it illegal to light up in an apartment or condo that shares a wall, ceiling, or floor with another unit. Violators face a $100 fine from the city, as well as eviction if smoking violates their lease agreement.
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Goldenboy219 said:
This is the attitude that got smoking banned in restaurants and the large city bar scene.
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No, the attitude that got smoking banned in PRIVATE businesses is the big government, nanny-staters, self-righteous, no-personal-responsibility, everything-is-someone-elses-fault, and the govt-must-protect-us attitude.

In other words, the ****wads.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Why, i am just standing there. You have decided to pollute my area, therefore you should have a bit more respect for my rights.
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I haven't infringed upon any of your rights. I would have been freely using a public area the same as the rest and engaging in a legal activity. You're the one with the holier-than-thou problem.

Goldenboy219 said:
If i was to politely ask you to not smoke in my presence, and your reply was **** you buddy, i guarantee my next reaction would not be respectful. If you cannot handle this, well i guess that's just tough rocks.
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Well then, you're getting arrested for assault and that's the consequences of your actions.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
This is the attitude that got smoking banned in restaurants and the large city bar scene.
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No, the attitude that got smoking banned from private establishments was the holier-than-thou ***** attitude of people who couldn't accept personal choice. There is no just reason to infringe upon property rights the way that anti-smoking POS law went ahead and did. If people can't accept the responsibilities of freedom, I say get out of the gene pool.
 
rivrrat said:
No, the attitude that got smoking banned in PRIVATE businesses is the big government, nanny-staters, self-righteous, no-personal-responsibility, everything-is-someone-elses-fault, and the govt-must-protect-us attitude.

In other words, the ****wads.
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Those ****ing ****wads piss me off. How can we ban them from public spaces?
 
rivrrat said:
It can still be offensive.


Nope. You just get the **** away from me. Don't like the smell of smoke? Don't ****ing sit next to someone smoking.



Don't sit near me when I'm smoking, and you won't smell my smoke. Pretty ****ing simple.
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I agree, if you're smoking in a designated area, and I sit down next to you, then I shouldn't say anything unless you're blowing it right in my face.

I'll usually move if someone's smoking is bothering me.

But that's what I like about having less designated areas. Less chance of me having to move.
 
Ikari said:
No, the attitude that got smoking banned from private establishments was the holier-than-thou ***** attitude of people who couldn't accept personal choice. There is no just reason to infringe upon property rights the way that anti-smoking POS law went ahead and did. If people can't accept the responsibilities of freedom, I say get out of the gene pool.
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So because you are a nicotine addict (not saying you, but within the realm of the discussion), i have to accommodate this addiction by walking away? And you wonder why this position is not supported by governments in all developed countries.
 
Smokers need to start a PAC and raise some money.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
So because you are a nicotine addict (not saying you, but within the realm of the discussion), i have to accommodate this addiction by walking away? And you wonder why this position is not supported by governments in all developed countries.
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Yes, because this is the real world implications of aggregated populace in a free society. This is a consequence of freedom on the scale it is supposed to exist on in this country. We must be able to handle the consequences and responsibilities of freedom if we wish to remain free. Of course, the adult and responsible thing to do if a smoker lights up next to you and you really do not like it is to walk away. The bitchy, me me me first thing to do is to raise a stink and initiate force against the other person.
 
reefedjib said:
Smokers need to start a PAC and raise some money.
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They would, but the government already took all their money in the form of taxes on tobacco products. Taxes, BTW, which were installed under the guise of offsetting the additional health care costs smokers put on the system.
 
Ikari said:
They would, but the government already took all their money in the form of taxes on tobacco products. Taxes, BTW, which were installed under the guise of offsetting the additional health care costs smokers put on the system.
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On top of those taxes, I would be willing to pledge $500 a year to stop this encroachment on my freedoms.
 
Ikari said:
Oh boo f'n hoo. Cry some more about being outside with random people and seeing or experiencing things you don't normally like. For ****'s sake, there are consequences and repercussions for living in a free society. People may be doing **** you don't like. It's time to man up and learn to accept the consequences of freedom instead of bitching to high heaven about every conceivable thing.
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We don't have complete freedom, and there are rules. Sorry to burst your libertarian pipe dream. Again, don't lecture me like an asshole. You're being hostile and it's not necessary. If you want to have a civilized debate with rational talking points, I'm cool with that... if you want to make personal attacks toward me and act like a child, then be prepared to be treated like one.

Ikari said:
I will lecture you about loss of logical and rational thought as this sentence of yours here has neither. I'm allergic to dogs and cats; does that mean people can't take their dogs out in public? I mean come on, it's the same damned thing as your ignorant and idiotic statement. Or should I just understand that people have dogs and because we're a free society, those people will take their dogs outside and I'll just have to learn to deal with it? Enough with being pansies about everything, it's really starting to hurt us and the future of the Republic.
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Dogs and cats in parks cause you to have an allergic reaction? Scientific proof please? I have never known anyone to have an allergy attack to animals while they are walking in the oudoors, unless of course a dog actually runs up to them and conveniently rubs themselves all over the person.

Also, are dogs and cats lethal carcinogens? Apples and oranges.

Ikari said:
Because it's a free country. Did you honestly need that one explained to you?
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We're not completely free and never have been. Maybe you have trouble distinguishing reality from how you want things to be.

Ikari said:
The government wouldn't be getting petitioned either if the French pansies would stop crying about every damned thing under the sun and man up about it. You're not getting cancer by walking past a smoker in the park; so don't even start up with bull**** excuses like that. Turn on the rational and logical thought processes first. Jesus.
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Keep up the mouth foaming and you won't get a reply from me again in this thread. I like you and you always have interesting contributions to discussions but if you're going to flame then there's no point in talking to you.
 
Ikari said:
Well then, you're getting arrested for assault and that's the consequences of your actions.
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Says the person who said he would pistol whip someone who took the ciggy out of his mouth. :2wave:
 
rivrrat said:
I have allergies to most perfumes and colognes. You don't see me whining my way to the govt to mandate people don't wear them. Why? Because I can take care of myself and don't need the ****ing government to step in and declare a ban simply to appease my delicate sensibilities. If someone's odor bothers me, I move away from them. I don't need the government to move them for me.
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When perfume can cause cancer then I'll care. Until then, apples and oranges. We're not talking about offensive body odours but a product containing hundreds of known and verified carcinogens. I shouldn't have to move because some jerk nearby wants to poison himself. If you want to consume poison then just go drink some, or snort it. Do it in any other way where I don't have to breathe your toxic and disgusting exhaled breath.

rivrrat said:
God this country is going into the ****ing crapper. Nobody can do a goddamn thing for themselves, nobody can take an ounce of personal responsibility, and everything is someone else's fault.
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Yeah boo hoo I can't take responsibility because I don't want to walk down the street walking behind someone who is puffing on a cancer stick. How about YOU take personal responsibility for YOUR addiction and smoke at home where people who actually value healthy lifestyle won't have to smell your noxious fumes?
 
Ikari said:
Yes, because this is the real world implications of aggregated populace in a free society. This is a consequence of freedom on the scale it is supposed to exist on in this country. We must be able to handle the consequences and responsibilities of freedom if we wish to remain free. Of course, the adult and responsible thing to do if a smoker lights up next to you and you really do not like it is to walk away. The bitchy, me me me first thing to do is to raise a stink and initiate force against the other person.
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Because your freedom to smoke trumps my freedom from smoke.

Values question: Would it be acceptable for someone to shoot up nicotine in public? Not that this is something remotely common (or even possible); i just want to gauge your perception of rights.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Says the person who said he would pistol whip someone who took the ciggy out of his mouth. :2wave:
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Don't steal my property and we won't have problems. As I said, I won't initiate force, but I will reply with it if force is used against me.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Because your freedom to smoke trumps my freedom from smoke.

Values question: Would it be acceptable for someone to shoot up nicotine in public? Not that this is something remotely common (or even possible); i just want to gauge your perception of rights.
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You're outside, what sort of "freedom from smoke" is there? I ride a motorcycle, I've been caught behind those obnoxious diesel trucks people make to blow as much black smoke as possible. It ain't cool, but there are idiots out there and there ain' t no law against it. So I have to learn to deal with it. That's all there is to it. There's lots of great things to say on the individual level; but we must understand that there will be aggregated consequences because of it.

And if someone wanted to shoot up nicotine in public, who am I to say no? It's a sure way to kill yourself, but ignoring that and assuming someone would be relatively ok; then fine. If tobacco and nicotine are legal; then they are legal and there are ramifications because of it. People aren't going to behave the way I want them to; but just because they behave in different ways doesn't mean I get to dictate to them how to behave. We have to deal with the fact that there will be jerks and the likes in our populace. It's life. We either fight it by reducing our freedom and enacting government force against people, or we accept it and deal with it as a consequence of freedom. I'll take the latter.
 
hazlnut said:
Drunk drivers too.
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They also no longer have the money to do so due to excessive fines and punishments associated with DUI. Thanks MADD...flipping PETA of the drunk driving world.
 
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