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Thread: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Not to mention, I have already said that I don't favour smoking pot in parks either. Smoke is smoke. If you're smoking near me then I'm likely breathing it.
    do you drive a car? do you go outside when cars are opperating? why are you not bi#$hing about the smoke comming from cars? i'm pretty sure it is far worse than anything comming out of anyone's lungs.

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by caine View Post
    you are still breathing that garbage coming out of that car that just drove past you, so quit yer crying.
    exactly!!!

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by majora$$hole View Post
    do you drive a car? do you go outside when cars are opperating? why are you not bi#$hing about the smoke comming from cars? i'm pretty sure it is far worse than anything comming out of anyone's lungs.
    Modern cars produce about 1% of the pollution that cars did half a century ago, when people began to become aware of smog. Cigarettes still produce just as much as ever. We don't have to give up cars for clean air.

    There is no good thing about smoking cigarettes. It is an addiction, pure and simple, that causes health problems for the smoker and anyone around them. Cars, on the other hand are far superior to horse drawn carriages, and produce less pollution as well.

    Besides, smoking stinks!
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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I definitely agree with you about increasing public transportation to help clean the air, but unfortunately with Americans love of their automobile and the lack of adequate mass transportation, especially in LA and all over the west, you'd hard pressed to convince many people that their standard of living would be better without a car.
    So people have a double standard. Some things are acceptable, others are not. Despite the fact that cars produce far more air pollution than smokers do. This is why many smokers believe that anti-smokers are hypocritical. Especially when you are comparing the two together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Of course, every individual has their own notion of what makes a good standard of living, but there is a Standard of Living Index and one of the indicators is life expectancy and it would be very difficult to argue that cigarettes or SHS increase life expectancy. The other indicators are education and purchasing power and the World Health Organization studies show that nonsmokers on average are better educated and earn more than smokers. So I don't know about you but imo, earning more money does make for a better standard of living.

    Scanning the Statistics on Smoking - For Dummies

    Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    First I just want to state that I didn't even look at your wiki link. Wiki is about as reliable as a cow trying to jump over the moon and actually making it. But yes I do know about the index.

    As for the rest I find it hard to believe that they are trying to make that kind of correlation. Even if I did read them saying that more educated people are less likely to smoke. Doing so just ignores the history of smoking. Despite them knowing it.
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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Modern cars produce about 1% of the pollution that cars did half a century ago, when people began to become aware of smog. Cigarettes still produce just as much as ever. We don't have to give up cars for clean air.
    Actually that is incorrect. A well maintained 10 year old car can produce less pollution than a poorly maintained 5 year old car. Also we have far more cars on the road today than we did in say the 1960's. Americans drive roughly 6+ billion miles today in one day than compared to around 2 some odd billion in the 60's in one day.

    As for smokers producing the same as before that is also incorrect. Thanks to on going education more and more people are 1: quitting smoking and 2: less people are even begining to smoke compared to what it was like in the 60's - 70's.

    False or incomplete facts will not get you anywheres.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    There is no good thing about smoking cigarettes. It is an addiction, pure and simple, that causes health problems for the smoker and anyone around them. Cars, on the other hand are far superior to horse drawn carriages, and produce less pollution as well.
    So? There are lots of things that people do that has no benefit what so ever. Yet those are still acceptable. For example sitting and watching soap operas for hours on end. And not all smokers have any health problems related to smoking.

    And no cars do not produce less pollution than smoking. In fact vehicles cause two of our worst air pollution problems, smog and carbon monoxide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Besides, smoking stinks!
    Have you ever smelled what comes out of the exhaust of a car? Not exactly the smell of roses bud.
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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Actually that is incorrect. A well maintained 10 year old car can produce less pollution than a poorly maintained 5 year old car. Also we have far more cars on the road today than we did in say the 1960's. Americans drive roughly 6+ billion miles today in one day than compared to around 2 some odd billion in the 60's in one day.
    That's not what I said.

    A car from 60 years ago, brand new and well maintained, produced many times the level of pollution at that time as a new well maintained car does today. Cars today produce less pollution than cars did half a century ago, due to improved technology. Of course, a well maintained ten year old car will do better than a poorly maintained newer car. A 1960 model can't be made to produce less pollution without adding modern improvements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    As for smokers producing the same as before that is also incorrect. Thanks to on going education more and more people are 1: quitting smoking and 2: less people are even begining to smoke compared to what it was like in the 60's - 70's.
    Fewer people smoke today than 50 years ago, due to our understanding of the health risks. That doesn't do a thing to improve the pollution coming from those who still do smoke. A burning cigarette produces the same level of pollution that it did 50 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    False or incomplete facts will not get you anywheres.
    Nor you.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So? There are lots of things that people do that has no benefit what so ever. Yet those are still acceptable. For example sitting and watching soap operas for hours on end. And not all smokers have any health problems related to smoking.
    If someone wants to sit for hours and watch soaps, let them. If they want to smoke in their own homes, with no innocent children inhaling their poisons, let them. Not all six hour a day soap opera watchers have health problems from inactivity, either, but most do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And no cars do not produce less pollution than smoking. In fact vehicles cause two of our worst air pollution problems, smog and carbon monoxide.



    Have you ever smelled what comes out of the exhaust of a car? Not exactly the smell of roses bud.
    True, and if anyone wanted to leave their car ideling in my favorite restaurant, I'd object to that too.
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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Fewer people smoke today than 50 years ago, due to our understanding of the health risks.
    Partly true, but a huge factor has been cracking down on people who sell cigarrettes to minors. Most of the people I know who smoke (myself included) became addicted to them when they were quite young at a time when health risks were'nt something that they had any real understandign of (I was 11 when I first started smoking, by 13 I was a regular smoker). Back then (and it isn't all that long ago. It was the late 80's early 90's) I was able to walk into a gas station and buy cigarrettes with money I got from mowing lawns and such. It was disturbiungly easy to get them. Now, if someone were to sell cigarrettes to an 11 year old they can receive massive fines and even lose their business license.

    This is the kind of government regulation that I fully support.

    And more people are quitting now than ever, and that is in no small part due to the increased resources available to assist them in quitting. Patches, e-cigarrettes, gum, pills, etc have all made it so that quitting is easier today than it was 20-30 years ago, but it is still a very difficult thing to do. Anyone who has battled with an addiction can understand that it is an ongoing process and that relapes will occur.

    One of the things that non-smokers tend to say is that "smoking is a choice, smokers only have themselves to blame for their problems" and that's true to a point. Ultimately I made the decision to become a smoker when I was a kid and I have control over quitting now. But the fact that the decision to become a smoker, and subsequent addiction that I developped came about because of a choice made when I was very young, and very, very stupid, is something to take into consideration. I'm not in the minority. Most smokers today became smokers because of stupid choices they made when they were young and stupid and considered themselves invincible.

    This is why most smokers support most the types of government regulations that are effective in preventing underage smoking. It's why I personally don't have as much of a problem with the extremely high taxes on cigarrettes that exist (because the high prices are also a factor in preventing children from smoking).

    But one thing I disagree with is the demonization of smokers that exists today. I think that can be counter-productive to the ultimate goal of preventing kids from smoking. Kids are naturally rebellious. They do things specifically to piss off their parents. I believe treating smokers like they are a scourge on society adds an apeal to smoking for the rebelious child.

    But treating smokers as if they are sick (and addiction is a form of sickness) and require help and treatment would not create this "rebel" aura for smoking. It would accurately give it the appearance of a personal weakness that smokers have (which it is). It's a weakness that stems from childhood stupidity in many, many cases.

    Personally, I would support making some parks and beaches smoke-free environments while having some where smoking was allowed. But the anti-smoking agenda has taken on a stance of demonizing the smoker and has shown itself to be unwilling to make such compromises based on a ack compassion for the plight of the addicted.
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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Did you miss the part where I described how this is true of my allergy as well?



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    The bolded and underlined portion indicates to me that you might have missed large swaths of my post.



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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    get out now.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Modern cars produce about 1% of the pollution that cars did half a century ago, when people began to become aware of smog. Cigarettes still produce just as much as ever. We don't have to give up cars for clean air.

    There is no good thing about smoking cigarettes. It is an addiction, pure and simple, that causes health problems for the smoker and anyone around them. Cars, on the other hand are far superior to horse drawn carriages, and produce less pollution as well.

    Besides, smoking stinks!
    perhaps but there are 1000000 X more cars on the road than a half a century ago which puts a wrench in your figuring.

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