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Thread: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Tucker, I honestly sympathize with your allergy, but you can always make the choice to not eat at restaurants and prepare your food at home. People with allergies to peanuts have it worse than you; many can't even smell peanuts or be exposed to their residue without being sent into anaphylaxis. Many packaged foods now say "may contain traces of nuts" and that has been a relatively recent innovation to packaging. There is a lot of cross-contamination in food production and it's something that industry and restaurants are gradually becoming aware of. If you have a severe allergy you should always carry an epi pen or two (each one will give you approx. 15 minutes of leeway before an ambulance can arrive if you're in a severe anaphylactic state).

    That said, I would still not compare this to outdoor smoking. What happens in private establishments is fine. If a restaurant has smoking, I don't have to go there; just like if a place might have cross-contamination of shellfish, there is nothing forcing you to go there. But smoking outdoors is in public spaces. What am I supposed to do, stay at home? At least with your shellfish allergy, your exposure mostly relates to eating the stuff, and not breathing the scent. You can go to a park and enjoy yourself without worrying about it. Smoke disperses into the air, and I can't stop myself from breathing.

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    People with allergies to peanuts have it worse than you; many can't even smell peanuts or be exposed to their residue without being sent into anaphylaxis.
    Did you miss the part where I described how this is true of my allergy as well?

    Many packaged foods now say "may contain traces of nuts" and that has been a relatively recent innovation to packaging. There is a lot of cross-contamination in food production and it's something that industry and restaurants are gradually becoming aware of. If you have a severe allergy you should always carry an epi pen or two (each one will give you approx. 15 minutes of leeway before an ambulance can arrive if you're in a severe anaphylactic state).
    I have an epipen.

    That said, I would still not compare this to outdoor smoking. What happens in private establishments is fine. If a restaurant has smoking, I don't have to go there; just like if a place might have cross-contamination of shellfish, there is nothing forcing you to go there. But smoking outdoors is in public spaces. What am I supposed to do, stay at home? At least with your shellfish allergy, your exposure mostly relates to eating the stuff, and not breathing the scent. You can go to a park and enjoy yourself without worrying about it. Smoke disperses into the air, and I can't stop myself from breathing.

    The bolded and underlined portion indicates to me that you might have missed large swaths of my post.
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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Let me preface this by saying I am a smoker who almost always moves away from random non-smokers before I light up (If they know me, they know being around me means being around smoking and if I'm in a designated smoking area, they are responsible for their exposure to my smoke).

    Anyway, I also have a very deadly shellfish allergy. I have had reactions from being in the vicinity of people shellfish (especially because people eat shellfish like ****ing savages, tearing at the shells and spraying that poisonous **** everywhere). I have had two experiences where I had to be rushed to the hospital and in neither instance did I actually consume shellfish. I ate food that was cooked in the vicinity where shellfish was cooked. I also have reactions just talking to people who have eaten shellfish recently. My face will break out in hives. I could actually be used as a shellfish detector. Just hold me near the place where the shellfish is suspected and if I break out in hives, it's shellfish alright.

    Anyway, unlike second-hand smoke, second-hand shellfish can quite literally kill me immediately. My throat swells up and I lose my ability to breathe. I can go into anaphylactic shock in a very short period of time. If you've never had an extreme allergic reaction to somehting, I hope you never do. Its miserable.

    But all of this means I have to take extra-special precautions when I go to restaurants. Before I order anything, I ask about their cooking practices, find out what amounts of shellfish they serve, learn if they have separate grills and fryers for people with shellfish allergies (surprisingly, seafood restaurants are more likely to have these things than other restaurants, but for me to even go in the door of these places I need to have taken allergy medicine and have some emergency medicine on hand for immediate use in case my food somehow becomes contaminated or the air in the room has too much allergen in it).

    It's a huge inconvenience for me when I go out to dinner. My life would be MUCH better and safer if shellfish were banned from being served at restaurants. If the ignorant shellfish eaters want to eat shellfish, they can do so in their own homes and not expose me to something that can kill me within minutes. At the very least life would be safer and easier if any restaurant that cooked shellfish in the vicinity of non-shellfish food should be closed down as a public danger and that every restaurant should have non-shellfish cooking utensils, plates, silverware, fryers, grills etc.

    But I don't think like that.

    I realize that I don't have a right to go to any business establishment with an expectation that they will automatically cater to my desires, even though my issue is a life or death issue. ......
    You must be an absolute joy to go out to dinner with. LOL But I can empathize.

    When I was single I went on a Caribbean vacation with a fellow I was interested in, only to find out after we got there he was allergic to the sun. LOL So there we were sitting on the beach, I in my bikini and he in his long sleeved green hospital scrubs. It still cracks me up thinking about it. But again, he couldn't expect the sun to be outlawed anymore than you could shellfish. But I think the point here is that smoking is a choice, not an affliction that you can't do anything about except deal with it.

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    You must be an absolute joy to go out to dinner with. LOL But I can empathize.

    When I was single I went on a Caribbean vacation with a fellow I was interested in, only to find out after we got there he was allergic to the sun. LOL So there we were sitting on the beach, I in my bikini and he in his long sleeved green hospital scrubs. It still cracks me up thinking about it. But again, he couldn't expect the sun to be outlawed anymore than you could shellfish. But I think the point here is that smoking is a choice, not an affliction that you can't do anything about except deal with it.
    Eating shell fish is no different of a choice, people can not eat shell fish at restaurants, nor cook it outside.

    It's pretty clear, we tolerate some things even though they can immediately kill people but we don't tolerate other things because they annoy some people.
    Screw that crap, America was built with the concept of free choice and free association.

    Not this cry baby banning nonsense.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    You must be an absolute joy to go out to dinner with. LOL But I can empathize.

    When I was single I went on a Caribbean vacation with a fellow I was interested in, only to find out after we got there he was allergic to the sun. LOL So there we were sitting on the beach, I in my bikini and he in his long sleeved green hospital scrubs. It still cracks me up thinking about it. But again, he couldn't expect the sun to be outlawed anymore than you could shellfish. But I think the point here is that smoking is a choice, not an affliction that you can't do anything about except deal with it.
    My allergy to shellfish is not a choice, but other people choose to eat shellfish despite that it can kill many people.

    The comparison is that I'm like the non-smoker, and the shellfish eaters are like smokers.

    The difference is that being around smoke outdoors is, by and large, mostly just an annoyance that has an extremely unlikely risk of causing a medical problem at some future time and date far off and not immediately. Whereas being around shellfish is a much higher risk for me and the medical problems will be immediate.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 09-23-10 at 03:32 PM.
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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    My allergy to shellfish is not a choice, but other people choose to eat shellfish.
    But isn't that what I said, that smoking is a choice, not an affliction you can't do anything about except deal with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Eating shell fish is no different of a choice, people can not eat shell fish at restaurants, nor cook it outside.

    It's pretty clear, we tolerate some things even though they can immediately kill people but we don't tolerate other things because they annoy some people.
    Screw that crap, America was built with the concept of free choice and free association.

    Not this cry baby banning nonsense.
    America was built on slavery and property rights. The rest of it is an illusion to appease the peasants to keep them from revolting and rioting against the wealthy land and business owners. Tobacco is the Indian's curse on the white man.

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Technocratic View Post
    Peak Oil
    Peak Oil is a myth based on ignorance about the presence of speculation.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    But isn't that what I said, that smoking is a choice, not an affliction you can't do anything about except deal with it?
    You are trying to comapre the wrong parts of the story.

    Eating shelfish is a choice, just like smoking is. In fact, being a NON-smoker is a choice. Their dislike for smoke isn't an affliction. It's merely a preference.

    Whereas I made no choice to be allergic to shellfish.

    And the real risk to non-smokers for being around smoke in open, public areas is miniscule and never an immediatre threat to their life.

    Whereas the threat to me for being around shellfish is fairly high and it is an immediate threat to my life.

    One issue, that of the non-smoker, is primarily related to mild discomfort caused by an odor coupled with an irrational fear of a fairly low risk situation (We're not talking about being in an enclosed room with large quantities of second hand smoke for a prolonged period of time).

    The other issue, that of the shellfish allergy, can actually cause immediate death and requires me to have medicine nearby most of the time.

    Yet there is no outcry for banning shellfish consuption in public places. Nor is there an outcry to ban the consumption of nuts (another deadly food allergy).

    Nor do I believe there should be a ban on these things, even though it is often my life at risk and I am the one inconvenienced by these things.

    I'm merely offering the ultimate reason why I think that most of the non-smokers who wish to see smoking banned from any place they may encounter are wrong. I deal with something far worse than being a non-smoker who is subjected to a smell they don't like without expecting the world to cater to my whims about it.

    I have sympathy for those with allergies to cigarrette smoke, but for those people who merely dislike smoke and want it banned from their presence I have no sympathy at all.

    And that's entirely because deal with something far worse and far more dangerous to me without whining about how I need it to be banned cause it can give me a boo boo.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    America was built on slavery and property rights. The rest of it is an illusion to appease the peasants to keep them from revolting and rioting against the wealthy land and business owners. Tobacco is the Indian's curse on the white man.


    Geesh.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post


    Geesh.
    Didn't your father give you all of his slave money? I know I did the day I turned 21.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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