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Thread: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    This thread makes me want to smoke. Secretly I've been hoping they outlaw cigarettes all together cuz I figure that might be the only way I'll ever quit. But all the banning sure has made me cut down, though. But I've been rolling my own since they raised taxes again and that's made me cut down even more cuz it's real hard to roll a cigarette while I'm driving or talking on the phone.

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    It's true that pre-disposition to cancer increases your chance of suffering uncontrolled cell mutation, but it's false that you need to have this pre-disposition to get cancer from smoking. There are many, many other factors involved that can result in cancer growth. Bottom line is... smokers lighting up near me are removing my choice to not be exposed to a carcinogen. That is unacceptable. If someone were shooting up near me or snorting coke, I would feel bad for them, but at least I wouldn't have to partake. If smokers want to contaminate the air then they can do it from the comfort of their own homes.
    That's the thing though. You don't recieve hardly any nicotine or any other carcinogens from SHS. Let's say you worked in a smoking restaurant or bar. You would recieve between 9.41 and 14.9 micrograms per cubic meter in a 24hr period according to this article...

    Exposures to second-hand smoke lower than believed, ORNL study finds

    Such a concentration would be even less in open air exposure and even more so if you're a non-smoker working in a non-smoking environment. Even if you used the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1993 of 117 and 348 micrograms per cubic meter from the article, it still does not even come close to the The OSHA standard for RSP of 5k micrograms per cubic meter over eight hours. And mind you would get far less if you were just in there for the standard hour to eat breakfast, lunch, or dinner.

    Also of note is in the 2002 NATA assesment of air toxins nicotine wasn't even mentioned in it as a risk. Arsenic was, however it was of the non-organic nature.

    List of Air Toxics in the 2002 NATA Assessment

    In otherwords your risk of getting cancer from SHS is negligible...especially in the open air of parks, sidewalks etc etc. You are more likely to get cancer from other sources such as air pollutants from cars. Something which you are exposed to as a non-smoker far more than a smokers cigarette smoke. And yet you don't see car drivers being persecuted like you do cigarette smokers. After all...they are "removing my choice to not be exposed to a carcinogen"...as you stated.

    And just to put this into perspective...

    1 microgram = 1 millionth of a gram
    1 gram = 1 thousandth of a kilogram.
    1 kilogram = equal to 1,000 grams or 2.2046 pounds

    Do you seriously think that a smokers smoke is going to affect you in any meaningful way?
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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You are intentionally misreading my words. If everyone follows the rules of the road, everyone can operate them safely. I am put in danger on my bicycle NOT because I don't follow the rules of the road, but because OTHERS don't follow the rules of the road. Fortunately, as I am a very good rider and very conscious of my environment and those around me, my impact on the rights of others is minimal as is the 'danger' I put myself in. BTW, any time you cross a street, you put yourself in danger from those who may violate the law and not yield at a crosswalk. Does that mean you should not cross the street?
    No I'm not "intentioinally" misreading your words. I get that you're talking about everyone following the rules etc etc. But that is really immaterial. Especially since you can get more cancer causing toxins in your body via cars without any accident on your part or their part together than you would via SHS.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    But it most certainly increases the risk, just as my getting regular exercise REDUCES the risk that I will develop many medical problems as I get older compared to sedentary obese people.
    The increase risk is negligable. Far more negligable than so many anti-smokers would, or want you to believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You do not build up an immunity to the cancer causing agents in cigarettes...
    I was talking about poison..which is what arsenic is. A poison. Which is what I responded to. Now you're just moving the bar to include all "cancer causing agents".
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Cancer isn't the biggest problem with SHS. It does many other things. It makes you feel ill, it gives you nasal and throat infections if exposed frequently, it ruins your clothes, etc.

    It also can irritate your eyes.

    And since smoking is stupid, by not doing it, you aren't really missing out. You'll thank everyone later.

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    It's arrogant to tell me what quantities of poison fumes will or won't affect me based on what some statistic says. A drug is a drug, whether it's tobacco or aspirin, and if a person is sensitive then they are bound to have reactions to mainstream doses.

    Second hand smoke can cause cancer. Period.

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If that's the case, I want a ban on fat people in revealing clothing, loud music, unleashed dogs, food, unsupervised children, etc.

    The list is very long of **** that I want banned in the park.
    I want bans on flamboyant homosexual males out in public because it harms me and my children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    It's arrogant to tell me what quantities of poison fumes will or won't affect me based on what some statistic says. A drug is a drug, whether it's tobacco or aspirin, and if a person is sensitive then they are bound to have reactions to mainstream doses.

    Second hand smoke can cause cancer. Period.
    Yes. You are right.

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    That's the thing though. You don't recieve hardly any nicotine or any other carcinogens from SHS. Let's say you worked in a smoking restaurant or bar. You would recieve between 9.41 and 14.9 micrograms per cubic meter in a 24hr period according to this article...

    Exposures to second-hand smoke lower than believed, ORNL study finds


    List of Air Toxics in the 2002 NATA Assessment

    [edit for length]

    Do you seriously think that a smokers smoke is going to affect you in any meaningful way?
    Okay, lets say you weren't a smoker, but you worked in a bar that was always filled with second hand smoke so thick you could hardly see and then you went home to your apartment and the neighbors second hand smoke kept coming up through vents and even under the door. You tried to put towels under the door and over the vents but the smoke still permeated the air. So you move and then a few months later you find out you have lung cancer and go through a years worth of chemo and have to shave off all your long beautiful hair.

    Then the doctors say they think they got all the cancer and you think you're going to be okay, only to find out a month later that the cancer spread to your brain. So the doctors tell you have less than six months to live and you hope to live to see one more spring before you die, but the brain cancer causes you to pass out and you fall and break your neck the day before my flight across country to come see you. So the last time I get to see you is in your coffin and your mother made you wear that ugly turbon instead of a wig. You were so beautiful Robyn and I think of you almost everyday, I miss you so very much.

    So don't tell me second hand smoke doesn't cause cancer or effect me in any meaningful way.
    Last edited by Moot; 09-19-10 at 04:59 AM.

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    It's arrogant to tell me what quantities of poison fumes will or won't affect me based on what some statistic says. A drug is a drug, whether it's tobacco or aspirin, and if a person is sensitive then they are bound to have reactions to mainstream doses.

    Second hand smoke can cause cancer. Period.
    So it's arrogant to state the truth? Hmmm.....Anyways....

    So can alot of other things. There are many more things that are in higher concentrations and is more likely to give you cancer. But you don't see them being persecuted like you do smokers. And THAT is the point of what I am saying. I am not saying that smoking can't give a person cancer. Or even SHS. I am saying that the likelyhood of SHS giving you cancer is unlikely when compared to all the other toxins that you are exposed to on a daily basis. The effects of SHS has been blown all out of porportion. So much so that I would call much of it lies.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Technocratic View Post
    Cancer isn't the biggest problem with SHS. It does many other things. It makes you feel ill, it gives you nasal and throat infections if exposed frequently, it ruins your clothes, etc.

    It also can irritate your eyes.

    And since smoking is stupid, by not doing it, you aren't really missing out. You'll thank everyone later.
    The same can be said of the many other toxins that you are exposed to on a daily basis. And yet smokers get persecuted far more. Why is that do you think?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Smokers Beware! Proposed New York City Smoking Ban Targets Outdoor Facilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Okay, lets say you weren't a smoker, but you worked in a bar that was always filled with second hand smoke so thick you could hardly see and then you went home to your apartment and the neighbors second hand smoke kept coming up through vents and even under the door. You tried to put towels under the door and over the vents but the smoke still permeated the air. So you move and then a few months later you find out you have lung cancer and go through a years worth of chemo and have to shave off all your long beautiful hair.

    Then the doctors say they think they got all the cancer and you think you're going to be okay, only to find out a month later that the cancer spread to your brain. So the doctors tell you have less than six months to live and you hope to live to see one more spring before you die, but the brain cancer causes you to pass out and you fall and break your neck the day before my flight across country to come see you. So the last time I get to see you is in your coffin and your mother made you wear that ugly turbon instead of a wig. You were so beautiful Robyn and I think of you almost everyday, I miss you so very much.

    So don't tell me second hand smoke doesn't cause cancer or effect me in any meaningful way.
    Did the doctors give Robyn a test that explicitly said that it was from SHS? Or did he just tell you that it was more than likely caused by SHS? I've noticed that lately a lot of doctors have just been assuming that any lung cancer they have come across was caused by smoking/SHS from anyone that says they smoke or were around smokers.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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