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Thread: Obama's Speech August 31, 2010

  1. #41
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    Re: Obama's Speech August 31, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I don't think there has been any American president that has delivered a bigger slap in the face to American servicemen, than our current president.
    Unless you call wasting their lives for nothing a slap in the face. If you think lives are of value, honored, then spending them needlessly is a slap in the face of all service men, so Bush would have delievered not only a bigger slap, but the worse possible slap.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama's Speech August 31, 2010

    I like how the conservative media wants the Obama administration to give Bush credit for the surge and all this other ****. Why in the hell would they give them credit for something that just pissed off insurgence more and gave our troops more of a hassle? Why should we give Bush credit he didn't fight the war. Obama has done what he set out to do with Iraqi and is winding down the war in a good way and giving the Iraqis back their power after going through a **** storm the past 7 years. Now that they have a democratic government and the help of America and it's allies things should be getting better.

    Obama's speech was fine. There wasn't anything really wrong with it. My only complaint is he tried to cover to many topics at once, when it should have been just specifically about the wars and the troops. I think he needs to start getting more aggressive on his stances on the economy and not just assume people know what he is talking about because obviously some people aren't getting the right message, they are getting the "right" message.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Obama's Speech August 31, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post

    Then due to pressure from a Neocon group called Project for the New American Century, Clinton illegally bombed a pharmaceutical company inside Iraq (Desert Fox) so he could falsely claim it was making WMDs. This was the justification the US used for not lifting sanctions. At this same time, the NeoCons were plotting to do regime change themselves but they knew they couldn't do it without someone to replace Saddam and thats where Chalabi and his IRC came in.

    After Bush took office he ended the protocol for UN inspections in favor of aerial surveillance and heavy bombing operations by US and British air forces over the No Fly Zones which encompassed over 2/3 of Iraq. The NeoCons contrived entire justification for the war on Iraq, and I have no reason to believe they didn't know before hand about 9/11 and simply let it happen so they could it use it as the justification to invade Iraq. Which is exactly what they did.
    A think-tank armed with a fax machine and less than a dozen employees did not dictate Clinton's foreign policy. Iraq was creating numerous problems for the administration and the administration was merely enforcing its containment policy.

    You were saying something about small minds?
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 09-03-10 at 01:53 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Obama's Speech August 31, 2010

    On the topic of Saddam and Iraqi, I really think anyone here that already hasn't should watch the HBO mini-series House of Saddam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia it shows just what an evil man he really was but it also puts in perspective a lot of the relations USA and CIA had with the Saddam Regime throughout the years.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Obama's Speech August 31, 2010

    JohWOlin,

    I saw that HBO special some time ago and thought it very inlightening. We created Saddam and when he got too big for his britches, we took him out.

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    Re: Obama's Speech August 31, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    A think-tank armed with a fax machine and less than a dozen employees did not dictate Clinton's foreign policy. Iraq was creating numerous problems for the administration and the administration was merely enforcing its containment policy.

    You were saying something about small minds?
    It's pretty naive to think all it was, was a think tank armed with a fax machine and less than a dozen employees when those same employees became the heads of state and had control over the CIA and military and a media outlet to broadcast their propaganda 24/7.

    But I totally agree Saddam was a problem, but he was a contained problem and the actions taken to deal with him were so exaggerated and costly that this country won't recover from it for decades to come.
    Last edited by Moot; 09-03-10 at 04:14 PM.

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    Re: Obama's Speech August 31, 2010

    There is a difference between the media world and the policy world, as well as having people inside levels of government being able to actually dictate policy decisions. The vast majority of those who received the faxes and gave their names were not in control of the government during the Clinton administration. Furthermore, it is simply idiotic to believe that these small number of "neocons" (most of whom, again, were not in the Bush administration at the time, and even afterwards, and furthermore, a number of them were not even 'neocons') somehow "let" 9/11 happen.

    Your argument would have only been slightly amplified had you pointed to the office space PNAC was renting from: The American Enterprise Institute.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 09-03-10 at 05:41 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Obama's Speech August 31, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    There is a difference between the media world and the policy world, as well as having people inside levels of government being able to actually dictate policy decisions. The vast majority of those who received the faxes and gave their names were not in control of the government during the Clinton administration. Furthermore, it is simply idiotic to believe that these small number of "neocons" (most of whom, again, were not in the Bush administration at the time, and even afterwards, and furthermore, a number of them were not even 'neocons') somehow "let" 9/11 happen.

    Your argument would have only been slightly amplified had you pointed to the office space PNAC was renting from: The American Enterprise Institute.
    Well, there was one particular AEI member who stands out in my mind, Danielle Pletka. She was a senior staff member for Near East and South Asia with the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations from 1992 to 2002. She was also married to Stephen Rademaker, who was Bush's Assistant Secretary of State for Arms Control.

    The reason I remember her was because she was on TV quite forcefully pushing her agenda for war and saying that Saddam had WMDs and that was the first time I had ever heard of AEI. Obviously, she had lots of contacts in high places, such as James Woolsey head of the CIA who along with her were at that meeting with Chalabi and Ritter concocting their little plan for Iraq regime change.....

    'My Friend Ahmed' - The small group is joined by Danielle Pletka, Rademaker’s wife and a staunchly conservative staffer on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and former CIA director James Woolsey. Over dinner, the group moves from discussing the military plans for overthrowing Hussein to a broader discussion of Chalabi’s political future. Woolsey, a vocal supporter of Chalabi, has no patience with the CIA’s objections to earlier actions by Chalabi and the INC (see January 1996). “This [criticism] is all bunk,” Woolsey says. “Chalabi is an Iraqi patriot and visionary who intimidates many lesser thinkers in Langley. My friend Ahmed is a risk taker who understands the reality of Iraq, unlike the desk-bound analysts and risk-averse operators at the CIA. Chalabi scares these people, so they have created false accusations in order to denigrate him and ultimately destroy him.” Pletka agrees: “We cannot allow this to happen. Ahmed Chalabi has many friends in Congress, and it is our goal to make sure Ahmed Chalabi gets the support he needs to not only survive as a viable opposition figure to Saddam Hussein but more importantly to prevail in Iraq.” Ritter is increasingly uncomfortable with what he will later call “a political strategy session.” It is clear, Ritter will write, “that Chalabi was being groomed for another run at power” (see March 1995).

    Madeleine Albright

    Danielle Pletka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    AEI - Scholars - Danielle Pletka
    Clearly, it was a lot more serious than "just a little fax machine and a few employees at a think tank."

    Richard Perle, Michael LeDeen, Paul Wolfowitz, John Yoo, Dick Cheney, Lynn Cheney, Jean Kirkpatrick, Newt Gingrich, David Frum, John Bolton, the list goes on and on of people connected with AEI and who had a hand in pushing for an illegal war.
    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...rise_Institute

    IMO, they should all be tried for war crimes and treason, but hey, this is America and only the "small people" get charged with crime, right?
    Last edited by Moot; 09-03-10 at 08:08 PM.

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    Re: Obama's Speech August 31, 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    As for not making us safer... you really have to be kidding. You're not!

    Not safer? Seems you disagree with Obama. After all, he wouldn't be ending this if we weren't safe... would he?

    I wonder why his party didn't vote against the war, the principle'd lot (ROTFLMAO), instead of voting for the war, and then turning on our troops when they needed their help most?

    No, instead the Dems sought our defeat in Iraq, and the Journolists piled on. And for what? Political power... not national security... political power.

    Talk about a sick lot.

    Tell me, what did we do to deserve 911?
    Tell me, do you recall Gulf War 1?
    16 UN resolutions? Connect-the-dots?
    Dems wanting and getting a second vote to go to war.
    Hillary schooling Code Pink about what she knew from The Impeached One's years at the helm?

    BTW, you forgot a couple Dem talking points for Zombies... Halliburton, Cheney, Neocon, Rumsfeld.

    Perhaps next time.

    .
    Which impeached one are you jabbering on about?

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