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Thread: Estimates Say Fewer Jobs, Larger Deficits if Republicans Were in Charge

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    Re: Estimates Say Fewer Jobs, Larger Deficits if Republicans Were in Charge

    Question for Boo - How many jobs were saved and what was the formula for calculating this number?

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    Re: Estimates Say Fewer Jobs, Larger Deficits if Republicans Were in Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    Question for Boo - How many jobs were saved and what was the formula for calculating this number?
    I haven't counted. But I did provide articles that gave numbers on teachers, and how many are now losing their jobs because the stimulus money is ending. So, I did give some numbers to look at. If we KNOW some education jobs were saved, evidence given, then we KNOW some jobs were saved. The only debate after that is how many.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Estimates Say Fewer Jobs, Larger Deficits if Republicans Were in Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You are absolutely correct, why would anyone believe that Bureau of Economic Analysis, Bureau of Labor Statistics, and the U.S. Treasury offer accurate data. Obviously CBO projections and Obama Administration propaganda is a lot more accurate. Looks like the people in the Gallop poll aren't reading your so called data either.
    My problem isn't with your offical sources, but with your interpretation of what they are saying. The numbers those sources provide don't say what you claim.

    As for any poll, there is likely a lot of misinformation represented in any poll. What people believe is seldom equal to fact. Facts remaind facts even when people believe falsehoods.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Estimates Say Fewer Jobs, Larger Deficits if Republicans Were in Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I haven't counted. But I did provide articles that gave numbers on teachers, and how many are now losing their jobs because the stimulus money is ending. So, I did give some numbers to look at. If we KNOW some education jobs were saved, evidence given, then we KNOW some jobs were saved. The only debate after that is how many.
    So Obama and the administration took a local problem and turned it into a federal problem? What gives Congress the right to force people in states where there isn't a problem to pay for the salaries of teachers in states like California who can't afford their vast list of entitlements, let alone pay their teachers? They "saved jobs" to the detriment of our children. Rather than fix the problem (entitlement spending), they have made it much worse by putting an even bigger burden on those who haven't been born yet. Brilliant!!!

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    Re: Estimates Say Fewer Jobs, Larger Deficits if Republicans Were in Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    So Obama and the administration took a local problem and turned it into a federal problem? What gives Congress the right to force people in states where there isn't a problem to pay for the salaries of teachers in states like California who can't afford their vast list of entitlements, let alone pay their teachers? They "saved jobs" to the detriment of our children. Rather than fix the problem (entitlement spending), they have made it much worse by putting an even bigger burden on those who haven't been born yet. Brilliant!!!
    You make quite a leap. Where were you on NCLB?

    But no, the stimulus money just gave states more respources with which to hold on to teachers. And they did so without the strings NCLB attached. Thus, it only helped states without putting any more burden on them.

    But the point was jobs were saved. This is a fact. The only point of debate is how many.

    As for future gnerations, crowded classrooms and the effect of losing teachers will also effect future generations. As will fighting two needless wars. Sooner or later we will have to deal with the debt. And it will require both cutting spending and rasing taxes. But there is no will to do that yet. And Reagan argue for deficit spending during a recession as I recall.

    But those are a different discussion.
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 09-07-10 at 01:57 PM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Estimates Say Fewer Jobs, Larger Deficits if Republicans Were in Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You make quite a leap. Where were you on NCLB?

    But no, the stimulus money just gave states more respources with which to hold on to teachers. And they did so without the strings NCLB attached. Thus, it only helped states without putting any more burden on them.

    But the point was jobs were saved. This is a fact. The only point of debate is how many.

    As for future gnerations, crowded classrooms and the effect of losing teachers will also effect future generations. As will fighting two needless wars. Sooner or later we will have to deal with the debt. And it will require both cutting spending and rasing taxes. But there is no will to do that yet. And Reagan argue for deficit spending during a recession as I recall.

    But those are a different discussion.
    I agree that jobs were saved, but we don't know how many and the cost was far too great. I was against NCLB. The role of education shouldn't be in the governments hands at any level of government (federal, state or local). How many times does government have to prove their ineptitude at damn near everything they do before the rest of the population wakes up to the truth?

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    Re: Estimates Say Fewer Jobs, Larger Deficits if Republicans Were in Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    I agree that jobs were saved, but we don't know how many and the cost was far too great. I was against NCLB. The role of education shouldn't be in the governments hands at any level of government (federal, state or local). How many times does government have to prove their ineptitude at damn near everything they do before the rest of the population wakes up to the truth?
    We are the government. And you find ineptitude everywhere. It isn't limited to government. Nor would I take government out of education completely. First, doing so would enble to rich to have even greater advantage. Poor communities would be very limited in what they could provide. While I think government, we the people, should listen more to those who know about education, the fact is it costs some money no matter you pare it down. And that money has to come from us the people, one way or another. Government is a good vehicle to collect and distribute our money and manager our efforts.

    If we want to minimialize the advantage of wealth, and create good citizens dispite wealth, then we need a public eucation system.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Estimates Say Fewer Jobs, Larger Deficits if Republicans Were in Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We are the government. And you find ineptitude everywhere. It isn't limited to government. Nor would I take government out of education completely. First, doing so would enble to rich to have even greater advantage. Poor communities would be very limited in what they could provide. While I think government, we the people, should listen more to those who know about education, the fact is it costs some money no matter you pare it down. And that money has to come from us the people, one way or another. Government is a good vehicle to collect and distribute our money and manager our efforts.

    If we want to minimialize the advantage of wealth, and create good citizens dispite wealth, then we need a public eucation system.
    We aren't the government and we haven't been for quite some time. The 17th amendment removed the voice of the states from DC and as the past year and half has proven, Congress is voting on legislation that goes against the will of the people. And as far as the rich comment went, take a look at charter school programs and voucher programs that have worked very well. These kids aren't rich by any stretch and there iss success story after success story.

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    Re: Estimates Say Fewer Jobs, Larger Deficits if Republicans Were in Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    We aren't the government and we haven't been for quite some time. The 17th amendment removed the voice of the states from DC and as the past year and half has proven, Congress is voting on legislation that goes against the will of the people. And as far as the rich comment went, take a look at charter school programs and voucher programs that have worked very well. These kids aren't rich by any stretch and there iss success story after success story.
    If congress is doing as you claim, all we have to do is vote them out. I, however, suggest they really aren't. Most of what they passed, we actually expressly wanted. The noise, the mud, the lies confused people a tad, but when asked about specifics, people actually wanted much of what they got. I suggest we listen better.

    Some charter schools have worked, and some haven't worked as well. But there has been nothing that has had to take the entire population. There won't be either.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Estimates Say Fewer Jobs, Larger Deficits if Republicans Were in Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    So Obama and the administration took a local problem and turned it into a federal problem? What gives Congress the right to force people in states where there isn't a problem to pay for the salaries of teachers in states like California who can't afford their vast list of entitlements, let alone pay their teachers? They "saved jobs" to the detriment of our children. Rather than fix the problem (entitlement spending), they have made it much worse by putting an even bigger burden on those who haven't been born yet. Brilliant!!!
    These kind of statements irk me. Not because they are false, only off base (which can be considered a talking point). US debt is only a problem in so much that foreign holdings yield increases relative to the yields on US holdings of foreign securities. The thinking is, the more debt held by trading partners and speculators, the more "yield" or interest will flow outward (bleeding wealth). But there is a catch, and many people simply are unaware; ceteris paribus. So while the foreign held composition has increased by a few percentage points since 2008 (less than 3%), US investors have increased their holdings of foreign capital in the tune of about 35%+ to nearly $6 trillion. It does not take much research to reveal that the US earns a better income investing abroad than other nations earn by investing here. The US typically earns $30 billion per year while we are considered................. Are you ready for this one? A net debtor! How is this exactly?

    This is (uncommonly) referred to as "Financial Dark Matter". I will be doing a piece on financial dark matter in the Econ subforum some time in the next month.

    I also do not expect a response.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 09-07-10 at 06:51 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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