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Thread: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    According to our policies, it wasn't necessary for them to have committed any offense, even one as minor as that. Just being related to someone we suspected of resisting us would have been enough.
    Moderator's Warning:
    U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!The OP is about a domestic/criminal incident, not about the executive branch or CIA interrogation techniques and their merits/demerits. If you wish to discuss such an agenda, start a dedicated thread on it.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Then I guess we don't have to worry about the Government's involvment in this particular case.
    You're assuming it makes a difference, which means you've fallen into the same error. Legally and morally, it doesn't. It's equally wrong whether the victim is related to a suspect or not.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Most of the prisoners at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo were not terrorists. Even if they had been, that wouldn't justify torture. But the Bush administration did try to justify it nonetheless.
    You appear to be operating under the misconception that we waterboarded "most of the prisoners at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo."

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Breaking the law = breaking the law. If it's okay to do it in some cases, one could argue that it's okay in others.
    This is pretty flawed logic. Let's say my boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss gets in trouble for running a ponzi scheme. Years later, let's say I go home and beat my kid with a lead pipe. Is that corrupt CEO to blame?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    I've never said or implied that soldiers or government employees = torturers. What I have said, which you persistently avoid addressing, is that this particular soldier's behavior is nothing but what our own government taught by example and sanctioned by its words. There is no way around that.
    Except for the fact that you're indisputably wrong, as has been pointed out to you over and over again.

    That soldier's employer also ordered the military to bomb terrorist training camps. If that guy comes home and blows up his local Kinko's, is that the government's fault?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You appear to be operating under the misconception that we waterboarded "most of the prisoners at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo."



    This is pretty flawed logic. Let's say my boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss gets in trouble for running a ponzi scheme. Years later, let's say I go home and beat my kid with a lead pipe. Is that corrupt CEO to blame?



    Except for the fact that you're indisputably wrong, as has been pointed out to you over and over again.

    That soldier's employer also ordered the military to bomb terrorist training camps. If that guy comes home and blows up his local Kinko's, is that the government's fault?
    If your CEO employs people to beat others with lead pipes in the regular course of business, then yes, he is to blame. That's the equivalent of what the US government did. No one has refuted or in fact even responded to my cited evidence for that.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    If your CEO employs people to beat others with lead pipes in the regular course of business, then yes, he is to blame.
    Even if the person who goes home and beats their kid with a lead pipe wasn't employed by the CEO to beat people with lead pipes?


    Using your logic, if I was employed by a football team as a stadium hot dog vendor and I went home and tackled my kid, it would be because my employer employs other people who have the job of tackling people.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 08-27-10 at 03:00 PM.
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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Even if the person who goes home and beats their kid with a lead pipe wasn't employed by the CEO to bear people with lead pipes?
    If the culprit bought into his superiors' rationalizations or was influenced by the immoral environment they created, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case
    Using your logic, if I was employed by a football team as a stadium hot dog vendor and I went home and tackled my kid, it would be because my employer employs other people who have the job of tackling people.
    No, because there is a moral difference between assaulting someone and tackling them in a football game. If you think there's a similar difference between assaulting an innocent American child and assaulting an innocent Iraqi, it only shows that your moral sense is clouded in a similar way. You're not military by any chance, are you?
    Last edited by Winston Smith; 08-27-10 at 03:09 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    If the culprit bought into his superiors' rationalizations or was influenced by the immoral environment they created, yes.
    If the culprit actually bought into his superiors rationalizations and such, he wouldn't have waterboarded a 6 year old child for wetting the bed, thus proving that your logic is deeply flawed and irrelevant to the topic at hand.

    The key is that you've admitted this guy didn't think the 6-year old was a terrorist. That is why your argument isn't really an argument.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 08-27-10 at 03:11 PM.
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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    If the culprit actually bought into his superiors rationalizations and such, he wouldn't have waterboarded a 6 year old child for wetting the bed, thus proving that your logic is deeply flawed and irrelevant to the topic at hand.

    The key is that you've admitted this guy didn't think the 6-year old was a terrorist. That is why your argument isn't really an argument.
    They didn't necessarily think the people they tortured in Iraq were terrorists, either. In some cases they tortured women and children just for purposes of intimidation and humiliation. That's all torture is usually about, actually.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    No one has refuted or in fact even responded to my cited evidence for that.
    Because there's not really a point. You're not offering anything new or groundbreaking; everyone in this thread is completely aware of the things you're talking about. We just happen to believe that your interpretation of those events and rationalization of this incident is flawed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    If the culprit bought into his superiors' rationalizations or was influenced by the immoral environment they created, yes.
    And that seems absolutely absurd, but you're entitled to your own opinion.

    No, because there is a moral difference between assaulting someone and tackling them in a football game.
    And there's a moral difference between waterboarding a terrorist in order to gain information and waterboarding a 6 year old kid who pissed the bed.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Because there's not really a point. You're not offering anything new or groundbreaking; everyone in this thread is completely aware of the things you're talking about. We just happen to believe that your interpretation of those events and rationalization of this incident is flawed.



    And that seems absolutely absurd, but you're entitled to your own opinion.



    And there's a moral difference between waterboarding a terrorist in order to gain information and waterboarding a 6 year old kid who pissed the bed.
    Assuming it really is a terrorist, the difference is only a matter of degree. Both are torture and both degrade the ethics of the person who does them...or supports them.

    And of course there's no reason to assume that. If as you say "everyone is aware" that we tortured innocent people for reasons other than gathering information, then the guy in this case must have been aware of it as well (actually two guys in two separate incidents, according to the video).
    Last edited by Winston Smith; 08-27-10 at 03:38 PM.

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