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Thread: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Funny you should say that, because all I'm getting from you is there are some in the military who only seek to blame others, whether it's for the inadequacies in the military, or in their politics, or in themselves. You sir, fit the criteria for all three.

    Army Soldiers have a long history of seeking higher blame for their unproffessional behaviors. It's people like you that seek to offer them legitimacy if it meets the criteria of criticizing the politician you hate.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Your words in response to the video......

    "Ah jeez, I hate to see children get abused. But gee whiz, I wonder where the soldiers got the idea to waterboard, let alone waterboard children? Any guesses?"

    It's your suggestion.
    Also my words.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Yes, I feel bad about the impression my first post left. I was more angry at what happened to those children than I was concerned about the soldiers.
    So while you were busy wallowing in your self pity and blame game, not once did you ever mention any concern for the kids in the article. Chew on that, MSgt.
    Last edited by Moot; 09-03-10 at 03:38 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Army Soldiers have a long history of seeking higher blame for their unproffessional behaviors. It's people like you that seek to offer them legitimacy if it meets the criteria of criticizing the politician you hate.
    Sorry, but I am not the topic here, nor am I your punching bag. If you feel the need to take this personally, that's your problem but I suggest you grow up and start taking some responsibility for your own behaviour instead of blaming others.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Moderator's Warning:
    U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed! Let's behave.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Sorry, but I am not the topic here, nor am I your punching bag. If you feel the need to take this personally, that's your problem but I suggest you grow up and start taking some responsibility for your own behaviour instead of blaming others.
    Well, I'm merely having a discussion with an individual who made statements and refuses to actually offer a base for them.

    In what way are you seeking for me not to have taken resposnibility for my behavior? I'm not the one that sought to turn this into an excuse to bash away at the same political old crap. Do I waterboard? Or does my uniform place me in danger of waterboarding my kid? Or do I represent the great evil that is the U.S. military and its horrible torturing sense of morality? I'm just curious how you are seeking to make me take responsibility for this garbage. I blame the idiot. It's you who sought to blame "others."
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-03-10 at 04:29 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    She was just another dumbass soldier making her branch look bad. She was a part of a supply convoy that got turned around in Iraq during the 2003 invasion and in the end couldn't defend herself because her weapon was dirty. She was captured, along with others, and had to be rescued.
    You seem to conveniently forget we were moving so fast we left part of our supply line undefended. My dad and I being in the military ourselves were flabbergasted that basic military science 101 was ignored, and we left our supply lines wide open to attack. I think you're being a little harsh on Lynch.

    As I'm sure you're well aware we were moving so fast we left enemy ammo dumps unsecured, which were later used for IED.s that took out a big share of our troops in the ensuing years. Then there was the naiveness that once we took the country we could call it Mission Accomplished. Boy were our leaders wrong on that one! Besides troops do stupid things in the fog of war and things don't always go as planned. You should know that.

    Don't just unload on some PFC whose MOS probably doesn't even fit your criticism. There were plenty of mistakes in the war to go around especially the higher brass. She got a lot of attention but she had no control over that. Both the military and the media used her.
    Last edited by EnigmaO01; 09-03-10 at 04:50 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    You seem to conviently forget we were moving so fast we left part of our supply line undefended. Both my dad and I being in the military ourselves were flabbergasted that basiic military science 101 was ignored and we left our supply lines open to attack. I think you're being a little harsh on Lynch.

    As I'm sure you're well aware we were moving so fast we left enemy ammo dumps unsecured which were later used for IED.s that took out a big share of our troops in the ensuing years.

    Don't just unload on some PFC whose MOS probably doesn't even fit your criticism. There were plenty of mistakes in the war to go around especially the higher brass.
    I didn't forget the haphazard pace of the Army to beat Marines to Baghdad nor was it a matter of convenience to omit. It's not the excuse the Army pretends it is so I dismissed it. These are Army mistakes that seem to get repeated from war to war. Marines left their supply convoys behind here and there as well, but they know how to be "Marines." Never would a Marine supply convoy get caught with its weapons incapacitated due to neglect. All of them engaged the enemy as they were engaged. And never would a Marine unit back on an airfield far from the combat have weapons that are useles due to rust and sand no matter the MOS.

    The Jessica Lynch issue is an Army failure that never gets fixed. And its embarrasing. Do you think support soldiers today are being trained annually on infantry tactics? Nope. Yet, we call them "soldiers" don't we? In what way are they soldiers if they can't fathom the importance of a clean weapon for personal or unit protection? The next Lynch story awaits to unfold in the next war because the Army conitnues to maintain a WWII model of organization. Until the Army removes itself from the WWII model of war, it will always set its soldiers up for this unnecessary danger. Lynch may have been a PFC and in an MOS where the Army stresses an absence of infantry training, but she was an individual with a gun and cleaning gear. In Basic she is taught how to use it. All of them are.
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-03-10 at 05:01 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Oh yeah I forgot there is no one as good as you marines.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    ......The Jessica Lynch issue is an Army failure that never gets fixed. And its embarrasing. Do you think support soldiers today are being trained annually on infantry tactics? Nope. Yet, we call them "soldiers" don't we? In what way are they soldiers if they can't fathom the importance of a clean weapon for personal or unit protection? The next Lynch story awaits to unfold in the next war because the Army conitnues to maintain a WWII model of organization. Until the Army removes itself from the WWII model of war, it will always set its soldiers up for this unnecessary danger. Lynch may have been a PFC and in an MOS where the Army stresses an absence of infantry training, but she was an individual with a gun and cleaning gear. In Basic she is taught how to use it. All of them are.
    "CLP versus Militec: One reader directed me to a TV news report about the gun lubricant used in Iraq. Apparently, the military developed its own gun lubricant: CLP. According to the TV report, CLP sucks in the desert. Sand sticks to it. The troops prefer another civilian lubricant called Militec. Many are asking their parents to buy it and ship it to them.

    If she attempted to fire it and it did not fire, here is what I think is a more likely explanation.

    Lock and load: To fire an M-16 or M-14 or other military rifle, you must put a magazine of bullets into the bottom of it. That puts 20 or so bullets just below the firing chamber. To fire it, you still have to pull the bolt back. Sliding the bolt back allows the top bullet in the magazine to rise up to the chamber level. When you push the bolt back forward, that pushes the first bullet into the firing chamber. Sliding the bolt back and forward again also cocks the hammer that strikes the back of the bullet to fire it when you pull the trigger. After the first bullet, the others are moved into the chamber and the hammer is cocked using the explosive gasses released by the firing of the previous bullet. In other words, the weapon is semi-automatic, meaning it cocks itself each time after the first bullet is fired. You cock it once but can pull the trigger and fire it thereafter as many times as there are additional bullets in the magazine without cocking it again. You just cock it once at the beginning of each magazine.

    If Lynch pulled the trigger and the weapon did not fire, it seems more likely that it was because she had not pulled the bolt back to chamber the first round and cock the hammer. It is even possible that she had no magazine in the rifle at all, although the magazine is of no use until its first round is chambered and the hammer cocked anyway....."

    Mr. Reed, I recently read your article "PFC Jessica Lynch's Capture" and noticed that the common belief is that her weapon jammed. This may be true, but I heard quite a different story. While I was XO of an infantry company at Fort Benning, we had a 1SG who came to us straight from one of the Ranger Battalions and was in every major conflict from Somalia onward. He is a very honest straight-shooting NCO. We also had a Spec-4 who had been in the same battalion as our 1SG. They were part of the effort to recover PFC Lynch and other members of her unit when they were in Iraq.

    According to both the 1SG and the SPC, the convoy didn't defend itself because they had their weapons in the back of their trucks. They may have even said that they were locked up in the back of the vehicles. If this is true, this is even worse than having a dirty weapon. I don't know if more information has surfaced, but I thought you may want to know. By the way, I started reading Succeeding yesterday and had to force myself to put it down when I realized it was almost two in the morning. It is a fantastic book! Thanks again!

    PFC Jessica Lynch’s capture
    Apparently there are many explanations as to why Jessica's Lynch's gun didn't fire: dirty gun, wrong oil lubricant, didn't pull bolt back to chamber first round, magazine not loaded, guns locked in trunk, didn't fire gun at all. But one thing is blatantly clear, you don't know why Lynch's gun didn't fire, and you will probably never know, for the simple fact that you weren't there.

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    Re: U.S. Soldier Waterboards 6 Year Old Foster Child For Wetting His Bed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Apparently there are many explanations as to why Jessica's Lynch's gun didn't fire: dirty gun, wrong oil lubricant, didn't pull bolt back to chamber first round, magazine not loaded, guns locked in trunk, didn't fire gun at all. But one thing is blatantly clear, you don't know why Lynch's gun didn't fire, and you will probably never know, for the simple fact that you weren't there.
    One - CLP has been the gun lubricant used in our weapons for decades. It was used in Beirut, the Gulf War, Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan and Iraq. It's been the issue through cold weather and hot weather. Jungle and desert. The same lubricant is used across the branches as is the same weapons.

    Two - An entire U.S. military ground force was using CLP across the branches and only this convoy got caught with their thumbs up their asses.

    Three - Jessica Lynch reported that hers and others weapons would not fire leading the obvious conclusion that they were dirty. She was not alone in her failure. Or did all of them forget to chamber a round?

    Four - If some of their weapons were not on their person and in the back (which is common knowledge to us) then they were worse than bad soldiers.

    And Five - I know exactly what happened because this isn't brain surgery. When an entire convoy can't fire their weapons there are only obvious answers as to why. There are only a few explanations and they all point to bad soldiering on a unit level. Seeking excuses only leads other soldiers to fall into the same lazy trap in the future. And they will because soldiers who dismiss fundamental basic errors will one day wear the stars that their current leaders wear.
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-04-10 at 01:00 PM.

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