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Thread: Texas fights global-warming power grab

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    Re: Texas fights global-warming power grab

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Bmanmcfly, you lost complete credibility with the Holdren nonsense. As long as you buy into partisan crap, you can't be taken seriously. No a fact check on that and you should be able to see you error.
    Have you read his 1970's writings?? How about his 80's writings? (repeating the same sentiment)... how about his writings from 1996? (another repeat of the sentiment).... you want 'partisan crap', Bush's science adviser Paul Ehrlich co-wrote 'ecoscience'.

    These aren't the musings of some control freak... this was a scholarly justification of the hows and whys of population control.... Hell, even when Holdren was interviewed and asked about the book, he went and denied the allegations (which is probably that fact check you mentioned) MEANWHILE THE BOOK IN QUESTION WAS PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED!!!

    So, specifically, am I discredited because he didn't write the book discussing such things? Is it because he 'didn't mean it'?? Is it because he changed his mind? Is it because you don't believe anyone could be that evil?

    I'll try and address the rest later. But I had to point out how disappointing it is to see anyone spout out such stupid partisan nonsense.
    No, I am not taking any sort of partisan position (except where my positions naturally will fall in partisan lines)... I limited the mention to Holdren ONLY to show that this is still going on now... if you want I could go further back... to the papers come out in the 60's how hormones were being studied that would be added to vaccines that would sterilize SOME women and reduce fertility in others. Or even further back to the 20's where the studies were being done on monkeys testing the potentials of 'anti-hormones'...

    or I could also point to people like Prince Charles who wrote in his book how if he reincarnates he wishes to be a deadly virus to help with overpopulation.... or looking at the Georgia Guidestones which declares that the world population should be maintained at a stable 500 million.

    There's simply TOO MUCH information to cover in the 12000 character limits. So, even if you COULD prove to me that ehrlich and Holdren were somehow joking back in the mid-70's, again in the 80's and again in 1996, I could probably find another 5-10 examples of people in positions of power and influence discussing the need or their desire to reduce human population numbers, and how this is intricately tied to the 'environmentalist' agenda.

    That said, I don't expect most people with valid concerns, since yes, humans ARE causing environmental problems through certain activites / industries, to grasp how they are being led to support a position with such diabolical (for lack of a better term) intentions backing it up.

    Bottom line... I don't care where my 'credibility' stands... my preference is to have people look into the information and come to their own conclusions... since I know that any objective look into the information makes a pretty conclusive case that there are influential members of society that have a deep seeded belief that the world is over-populated and that there is a need for drastic reduction in human population. Most sources that specify will allude to a 'majority', but most common numbers are between 80-90% reduction, with some 'extreme' who believe humanity to be a parasite and should be COMPLETELY eliminated. "How great an honor it will be to be the last human on earth and to commit suicide so that there can be a great return of the wilderness of the earth."

    I honestly WISH I was completely off base with all this.

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    Re: Texas fights global-warming power grab

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Have you read his 1970's writings?? How about his 80's writings? (repeating the same sentiment)... how about his writings from 1996? (another repeat of the sentiment).... you want 'partisan crap', Bush's science adviser Paul Ehrlich co-wrote 'ecoscience'.

    These aren't the musings of some control freak... this was a scholarly justification of the hows and whys of population control.... Hell, even when Holdren was interviewed and asked about the book, he went and denied the allegations (which is probably that fact check you mentioned) MEANWHILE THE BOOK IN QUESTION WAS PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED!!!

    So, specifically, am I discredited because he didn't write the book discussing such things? Is it because he 'didn't mean it'?? Is it because he changed his mind? Is it because you don't believe anyone could be that evil?



    No, I am not taking any sort of partisan position (except where my positions naturally will fall in partisan lines)... I limited the mention to Holdren ONLY to show that this is still going on now... if you want I could go further back... to the papers come out in the 60's how hormones were being studied that would be added to vaccines that would sterilize SOME women and reduce fertility in others. Or even further back to the 20's where the studies were being done on monkeys testing the potentials of 'anti-hormones'...

    or I could also point to people like Prince Charles who wrote in his book how if he reincarnates he wishes to be a deadly virus to help with overpopulation.... or looking at the Georgia Guidestones which declares that the world population should be maintained at a stable 500 million.

    There's simply TOO MUCH information to cover in the 12000 character limits. So, even if you COULD prove to me that ehrlich and Holdren were somehow joking back in the mid-70's, again in the 80's and again in 1996, I could probably find another 5-10 examples of people in positions of power and influence discussing the need or their desire to reduce human population numbers, and how this is intricately tied to the 'environmentalist' agenda.

    That said, I don't expect most people with valid concerns, since yes, humans ARE causing environmental problems through certain activites / industries, to grasp how they are being led to support a position with such diabolical (for lack of a better term) intentions backing it up.

    Bottom line... I don't care where my 'credibility' stands... my preference is to have people look into the information and come to their own conclusions... since I know that any objective look into the information makes a pretty conclusive case that there are influential members of society that have a deep seeded belief that the world is over-populated and that there is a need for drastic reduction in human population. Most sources that specify will allude to a 'majority', but most common numbers are between 80-90% reduction, with some 'extreme' who believe humanity to be a parasite and should be COMPLETELY eliminated. "How great an honor it will be to be the last human on earth and to commit suicide so that there can be a great return of the wilderness of the earth."

    I honestly WISH I was completely off base with all this.
    I have read it, and you are doing more buying into Beck misinformation and disingenuous interpretation than honestly trying to understand what he wrote. Anf that is why you lose credibility and can't be taken seriously/

    And while I commend people keeping an open mind and trying to gather information to make judgements, I don't see that from deniers. What I see is people doing the Bush drill, and starting with an answer they want, and trying to make information fit their precoceived answer. This is a poor way to problem solve. Mix that illogic with partisan garbage, beckish disingenuousness, and you have a pretty sad and silly position.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas fights global-warming power grab

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I have read it, and you are doing more buying into Beck misinformation and disingenuous interpretation than honestly trying to understand what he wrote. Anf that is why you lose credibility and can't be taken seriously/

    And while I commend people keeping an open mind and trying to gather information to make judgements, I don't see that from deniers. What I see is people doing the Bush drill, and starting with an answer they want, and trying to make information fit their precoceived answer. This is a poor way to problem solve. Mix that illogic with partisan garbage, beckish disingenuousness, and you have a pretty sad and silly position.
    I'm a denier, but I believe there is a better explanation for this. Considering how the Earth has to survive against volcanic activity, our CO2 output is probably that of a couple large volcano explosions. Earth has buffers in place to safeguard against large temperature changes just like our body regulate our temperatures. But I am not saying we should completely ignore the possibility of man-made CO2 as the culprit. I would like to see more research on that, but to force laws just on a hunch is enough to make me a denier for now because people are jumping on the bandwagon and making decisions that can break an economy or two in some countries.
    We the People of the United States,... provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare....
    Where did it ever say, promote for the common defence, and provide the general Welfare..... Please don't mix up the two....

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    Re: Texas fights global-warming power grab

    Quote Originally Posted by MCS117 View Post
    I'm a denier, but I believe there is a better explanation for this. Considering how the Earth has to survive against volcanic activity, our CO2 output is probably that of a couple large volcano explosions. Earth has buffers in place to safeguard against large temperature changes just like our body regulate our temperatures. But I am not saying we should completely ignore the possibility of man-made CO2 as the culprit. I would like to see more research on that, but to force laws just on a hunch is enough to make me a denier for now because people are jumping on the bandwagon and making decisions that can break an economy or two in some countries.
    I'm all for more research. But reasearch that never makes it to the making changes stage is kind of useless. At some point, research and information should inform our actions. Even if later proven wrong, prudent judgements based on the best information at the time is still better than simply putting off something until it is less likley to help. Remember the smoking debate? Deniers there had a huge impact on lives, and the industry was very successful in pretending there was doubt when there really wasn't. What was the cost?

    It is not unreasonable to take the best information available and act accordingly.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas fights global-warming power grab

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I have read it, and you are doing more buying into Beck misinformation and disingenuous interpretation than honestly trying to understand what he wrote. Anf that is why you lose credibility and can't be taken seriously
    First, I heartily dislike Glen Beck, and I had no idea that he had even commented on the book... This particular book, in honesty, I first heard discussed listening to Alex Jones, after which I did manage to find the book in a local library, but never bothered to read the whole thing, just skimmed through certain pages to see that things quoted were accurate and in context...

    Second, there's no NEED for interpretation... he says these things outright :
    - Put sterilants into water supplies so that would-be parents could apply for the antidote to have children
    - Forced abortions ARE constitutional (according to the author(s))
    - with illigitimate children, the parents could be forced to go through adoption proceedings to be able to raise their own children

    John Holdren, Obama's Science Czar, says: Forced abortions and mass sterilization needed to save the planet
    Has all the page scans, and SOME of the quotes that I was aware of...

    Here's the 1980's book he wrote... with some page scans and excerpts again :
    John Holdren and Harrison Brown

    And that is JUST ONE (1) example of an individual who TRULY BELIEVES in these eugenics / AGW / anti-human philosophies.

    Beyond his 'job interview' for science czar, is there ANYTHING ELSE then his denial at that point that he has changed his views since then??

    You don't HAVE to take my position seriously... I'm not forcing this down anyone's throats... but I would urge anyone who does think this is a joke to skim through the book itself...

    That said.... how about we forget about Holdren's eugenicist dream... when there are SO MANY OTHER sources that are less contended that ALL say the same thing... Even the UN's agenda 21, then the 1996 biological diversity assessment (which alludes to the need for mass reduction in human population numbers)... and so on, and so on...
    This isn't a new idea either... even Plato talked about the need back in his day to round up all the poor and stupid and kill them off for the betterment of the human species...

    And while I commend people keeping an open mind and trying to gather information to make judgements, I don't see that from deniers. What I see is people doing the Bush drill, and starting with an answer they want, and trying to make information fit their precoceived answer. This is a poor way to problem solve. Mix that illogic with partisan garbage, beckish disingenuousness, and you have a pretty sad and silly position.
    Yes... I agree. Do you honestly think that I somehow WANT to believe this is going on??? That, I'd rather be attempting to inform people about some of the people in power positions that just want to get rid of a majority of the worlds population to more 'manageable levels'... you know, instead of going out with my buds and drinking beer and picking up women or to watch the UFC matchup??? (I like doing those things too, minus the picking up women, my gf frowns on that somehow)... or to hear quotes from the likes of Warren Buffet who is all to happy to say, 'the only war is the class warfare between the rich and the poor, and it's US (the rich) that are winning' (to paraphrase).

    Seriously, I would be ALL TOO HAPPY if we legitimately had a benevolent government that wanted to bring us into a 'new world order' that would raise humanity to the highest levels and then take us to the stars.... but almost everytime you scratch the surface of AGW alarmists, of high powered individuals, the super-wealth, the 'too big to fails', etc... IT IS ALL ABOUT control and depopulation so they can keep the earth and it's resources for themselves.

    I WISH to be proven wrong. I would like nothing more then to think that everything is good, sadly more often then not, this is not the case.

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    Re: Texas fights global-warming power grab

    Quote Originally Posted by MCS117 View Post
    I'm a denier, but I believe there is a better explanation for this. Considering how the Earth has to survive against volcanic activity, our CO2 output is probably that of a couple large volcano explosions. Earth has buffers in place to safeguard against large temperature changes just like our body regulate our temperatures. But I am not saying we should completely ignore the possibility of man-made CO2 as the culprit. I would like to see more research on that, but to force laws just on a hunch is enough to make me a denier for now because people are jumping on the bandwagon and making decisions that can break an economy or two in some countries.
    Yes Earth has bufferes to deal with CO2 - they are called TREES and we are cutting them down at an unprecedented rate
    Greenhouse gases: Any gas that, by an accident of chemistry, happens to absorb radiation of a type that the Earth, by an accident of history, would like to lose.
    The internet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhoea -- massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it.


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    Re: Texas fights global-warming power grab

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    First, I heartily dislike Glen Beck, and I had no idea that he had even commented on the book... This particular book, in honesty, I first heard discussed listening to Alex Jones, after which I did manage to find the book in a local library, but never bothered to read the whole thing, just skimmed through certain pages to see that things quoted were accurate and in context...

    Second, there's no NEED for interpretation... he says these things outright :
    - Put sterilants into water supplies so that would-be parents could apply for the antidote to have children
    - Forced abortions ARE constitutional (according to the author(s))
    - with illigitimate children, the parents could be forced to go through adoption proceedings to be able to raise their own children

    John Holdren, Obama's Science Czar, says: Forced abortions and mass sterilization needed to save the planet
    Has all the page scans, and SOME of the quotes that I was aware of...

    Here's the 1980's book he wrote... with some page scans and excerpts again :
    John Holdren and Harrison Brown

    And that is JUST ONE (1) example of an individual who TRULY BELIEVES in these eugenics / AGW / anti-human philosophies.

    Beyond his 'job interview' for science czar, is there ANYTHING ELSE then his denial at that point that he has changed his views since then??

    You don't HAVE to take my position seriously... I'm not forcing this down anyone's throats... but I would urge anyone who does think this is a joke to skim through the book itself...

    That said.... how about we forget about Holdren's eugenicist dream... when there are SO MANY OTHER sources that are less contended that ALL say the same thing... Even the UN's agenda 21, then the 1996 biological diversity assessment (which alludes to the need for mass reduction in human population numbers)... and so on, and so on...
    This isn't a new idea either... even Plato talked about the need back in his day to round up all the poor and stupid and kill them off for the betterment of the human species...



    Yes... I agree. Do you honestly think that I somehow WANT to believe this is going on??? That, I'd rather be attempting to inform people about some of the people in power positions that just want to get rid of a majority of the worlds population to more 'manageable levels'... you know, instead of going out with my buds and drinking beer and picking up women or to watch the UFC matchup??? (I like doing those things too, minus the picking up women, my gf frowns on that somehow)... or to hear quotes from the likes of Warren Buffet who is all to happy to say, 'the only war is the class warfare between the rich and the poor, and it's US (the rich) that are winning' (to paraphrase).

    Seriously, I would be ALL TOO HAPPY if we legitimately had a benevolent government that wanted to bring us into a 'new world order' that would raise humanity to the highest levels and then take us to the stars.... but almost everytime you scratch the surface of AGW alarmists, of high powered individuals, the super-wealth, the 'too big to fails', etc... IT IS ALL ABOUT control and depopulation so they can keep the earth and it's resources for themselves.

    I WISH to be proven wrong. I would like nothing more then to think that everything is good, sadly more often then not, this is not the case.
    Still a dishonest reading of Holdren above. Try checking out the facts:

    But in seeking to score points for a political argument, Beck seriously mischaracterizes Holdren's positions. Holdren didn't advocate those ideas then. And, when asked at a Senate confirmation hearing, Holdren said he did not support them now. We think it's irresponsible to pluck a few lines from a 1,000-page, 30-year-old textbook, and then present them out of context to dismiss Holdren's long and distinguished career. And we rate Beck's claim Pants on Fire!

    PolitiFact | Glenn Beck claims science czar John Holdren proposed forced abortions and putting sterilants in the drinking water to control population

    So whether you Listen to Beck or not, your ideas parot his, and they are factually inaccurate.

    And no one is arguning the government is benevolent. But that doesn't mean that all things are ignored because you or we or anyone distrusts government. It is the science that is important here, and we should expect leaders to act on the best information. And the best information supports man playing a role, an important role in GW.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas fights global-warming power grab

    Seems like when the power goes out in certain parts of Texas the place becomes unstable. At least when the power goes out here I can still go outside and enjoy the weather.

    I guess this is the most suitable place to leave these links:
    Power outages cause air quality concerns in Texas City - Houston going green | Examiner.com

    Texas City emergency lifted as power comes back - MarketWatch

    The shelter-in-place warning has been lifted" at around noon, said Bruce Clawson, Texas City's director of emergency management. The measure, which asked residents to stay indoors and turn off their air conditioners, was initially enacted late Monday as power outages caused disruptions at several of the area's refining and petrochemical facilities, including a brief fire at a large refinery owned by BP PLC (BP, BP.LN). Texas City, an industrial suburb of Houston, contains one of the largest concentrations of refineries and petrochemical facilities in the world.

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    Re: Texas fights global-warming power grab

    Texas - a healthy environment is not that important. Is this supposed to be a surprise to anyone?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Texas fights global-warming power grab

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not sure it is the best solution,and am not arguing it is. But the thinking is that if they have to pay, they seek other means, thus not havin to pay. It isn't rocket science, and it is a bit disingenuous to act as if the no one understands the reasoning. now, you may argue it won't work. And I might agree. But let's not pretend we don;t see the thinking behind it.
    It's bull**** and you know it. It's a way for Al Gore to make money, and that's all it is. To pretend otherwise is think that paying money cleans the air. Carbon credits is a scam.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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