Bush-Cheney campaign manager, ex-chairman of Republican Party set to come out as gay

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

Redress said:

I am going to say this again: being anti-gay marriage does not make you anti-gay...

I am about as strongly pro SSM as a person can be, but even I recognize you can be against SSM without being anti-gay. It's that type of rhetoric that ultimately is more harmfull than helpful.

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I don't think someone who is against same-sex marraige is going to beat up a gay. I'm not taking it that far. However, they need to take a deep look at themselves and ask themselves why they're against equal treatment under the law for this particular group of people.

If you had two brothers - one straight, one gay - how would you explain to your gay brother that you think your other brother's relationship is better than his? Because that is, in essense, what you believe.

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

FilmFestGuy said:

I don't think someone who is against same-sex marraige is going to beat up a gay. I'm not taking it that far. However, they need to take a deep look at themselves and ask themselves why they're against equal treatment under the law for this particular group of people.

If you had two brothers - one straight, one gay - how would you explain to your gay brother that you think your other brother's relationship is better than his? Because that is, in essense, what you believe.

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You are framing the issue in a way that those against do not frame it.

Re: Bush-Cheney campaign manager, ex-chairman of Republican Party set to come out as

danarhea said:

This is something that the Republican Party has been covering up for many years. Prior to the election in 2004, GOP operatives called 2 New York papers and urged them not to publish information that Mehlman was gay. And gay papers across the nation have been after Mehlman for quite some time, because the Republican party ran extensive anti-gay campaigns over the years.

Now a major architect of the anti-gay GOP strategy is choosing to come out of the closet. For one, I applaud Mehlman for finally being honest and coming out. I am sure that this is a load off his mind, and that he feels much better. But this also shows that the GOP does not have the market cornered on so called morality issues. They are just as human as the Democrats. Maybe Mehlman and Barney Frank can now discuss issues such as gay marriage out in the open, over a couple of beers.

Ken Mehlman - An honest guy, and it didn't take foot tapping in an airport men's room to just be yourself. Kudos to you, Ken. You and the Republican party are that much better off because of your honesty. A little late is better than never.

Article is here.

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The GOP is anti-gay? You make it sound as if the Republicans want to put gays in concentration camps, or something. That's as idiotic as the claim that Republicans run racist campaigns.

Just ebcause the GOP doesn't support policies that force the lifestyles of others down the country's throat, doesn't make them anti-gay.

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

FilmFestGuy said:

I don't think someone who is against same-sex marraige is going to beat up a gay. I'm not taking it that far. However, they need to take a deep look at themselves and ask themselves why they're against equal treatment under the law for this particular group of people.

If you had two brothers - one straight, one gay - how would you explain to your gay brother that you think your other brother's relationship is better than his? Because that is, in essense, what you believe.

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I have an idea; since we live in the freest country in world--as well as in the history of the world--we stop trying to police people's thoughts and allow them to agree, or disagree with anything they wish.

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

apdst said:

I have an idea; since we live in the freest country in world--as well as in the history of the world--we stop trying to police people's thoughts and allow them to agree, or disagree with anything they wish.

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It isn't the freest country in the world. It is one of the freest countries in the world. But there are a lot of limitations on freedoms of Americans. And one of those is the right to marry the person of one's choice. And generally, the Republican Party is the one who uses anti-gay marriage initiatives to bring people to the polls.

I would largely say that the Republican Party has grown more tolerant of gays. But until they make the decision to step out of the gay marriage debate, then they are the party against freedom and equality for all citizens.

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

FilmFestGuy said:

It isn't the freest country in the world. It is one of the freest countries in the world. But there are a lot of limitations on freedoms of Americans. And one of those is the right to marry the person of one's choice. And generally, the Republican Party is the one who uses anti-gay marriage initiatives to bring people to the polls.
I would largely say that the Republican Party has grown more tolerant of gays. But until they make the decision to step out of the gay marriage debate, then they are the party against freedom and equality for all citizens.

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The only time the 'anti gay marriage initiatives' are brought forward are in response to efforts to change existing law, or judges deciding to create law against the will of the people. And thats fine...people can attempt to change the law and make it legal...and I can respectfully disagree.

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

VanceMack said:

The only time the 'anti gay marriage initiatives' are brought forward are in response to efforts to change existing law, or judges deciding to create law against the will of the people. And thats fine...people can attempt to change the law and make it legal...and I can respectfully disagree.

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You have the right to disagree, sure.

But you must admit that your vote restricts someone else's freedom and it makes our nation less free than Canada, the Netherlands, Spain, Argentina, South Africa, Norway, Iceland, Belgium, Portugal, and Sweden. Additionally, the craziness of having some couples legally able to marry in one state but not be recognized in another is a restriction on that family's ability to move freely throughout the nation. So, a couple is married in Massachusetts and unmarried in Michigan. Drive from Des Moines to Omaha, and your marriage suddenly just ended.

That's freedom!

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

FilmFestGuy said:

You have the right to disagree, sure.

But you must admit that your vote restricts someone else's freedom and it makes our nation less free than Canada, the Netherlands, Spain, Argentina, South Africa, Norway, Iceland, Belgium, Portugal, and Sweden. Additionally, the craziness of having some couples legally able to marry in one state but not be recognized in another is a restriction on that family's ability to move freely throughout the nation. So, a couple is married in Massachusetts and unmarried in Michigan. Drive from Des Moines to Omaha, and your marriage suddenly just ended.

That's freedom!

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SUre...no different than my vote restricts polygamists from unrestriced marriage or brothers and sisters. Are you petitioning for them as well?

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

VanceMack said:

SUre...no different than my vote restricts polygamists from unrestriced marriage or brothers and sisters. Are you petitioning for them as well?

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Not sure what you object to here. Polygamy, or incest?

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

BDBoop said:

Not sure what you object to here. Polygamy, or incest?

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All of it. But thats simply my OPINION. My OPINION is they are all wrong...different kinds of wrong...but wrong nonetheless and not a reason to suddenly change what has been the established norm for thousands of years. So if it becomes an issue of public vote I like you and everyone else will cast my vote to NOT change the definition of marriage. But I will still treat individuals with love and respect. And if that position bothers someone...frankly...thats THEIR problem...and Im beyond the point of giving a ****. The lack of respect for others opinion...the blatant bigotry, hatred and intolerance from those on the left has frankly turned me pretty ugly abolut the subject of gay marriage which is why I avoid the gay marriage threads.

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

VanceMack said:

The lack of respect for others opinion...the blatant bigotry, hatred and intolerance from those on the left has frankly turned me pretty ugly abolut the subject of gay marriage which is why I avoid the gay marriage threads.

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It shouldn't be like that. I know it is, and shoulda, woulda, coulda blah-blah whatever. But really, I have the same reaction from the other side of the fence. "Civility a must!" does not exactly seem to be the motto around here anymore.

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

BDBoop said:

It shouldn't be like that. I know it is, and shoulda, woulda, coulda blah-blah whatever. But really, I have the same reaction from the other side of the fence. "Civility a must!" does not exactly seem to be the motto around here anymore.

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I know I can come across as an ass at times (understatements are a specialty of mine!) but this whole subject bothers me to no end and it is a no win situation. I work with several gay people. I associate with them on a regular basis outside of work and class (and I know...its the cliche...oh...you have gay friends...riiiiight...how funny-but...no...I DONT have gay friends. I have friends and associatess...that they happen to be gay is iorrelevant to me). I have brought an in-law into my home and provided end of life care for him for over a year. MOST of the gay men I know are pretty comfortable and happy with their lives and dont believe the laws should be changed. Several get vilified because they arent militant enough for the gay cause. And to be blunt, the ignorance and pettiness behind the word 'homophobe' makes me both laugh and then want to puke. WHAT really pisses people off is when they throw it out there and people dont suddenly cower and dance to avoid being labelled. Dammit...thats supposed to work. Darn...have to try something else.

No...Im not a homophobe and to anyone that wants to use the label simply because I dont think we should change the laws I have two thoughts for you...1-Im sorry you feel that way, and 2-**** you...deal with it. I dont think the practice is right but I embrace people and their choices and lives and hope they find happiness. Beyond that...Im just tired of the whole thing.

Re: Bush-Cheney campaign manager, ex-chairman of Republican Party set to come out as

AmericanSon316 said:

This is another lies about Republicons. MY president George Walker Bush would never work with a gay.

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Well, it must be embarrassing that Ken Mehlman, the brains behind Bush's campaign, has openly come out of the closet as a homosexual.

"It's taken me 43 years to get comfortable with this part of my life," Mehlman said. "Everybody has their own path to travel, their own journey, and for me, over the past few months, I've told my family, friends, former colleagues, and current colleagues, and they've been wonderful and supportive. The process has been something that's made me a happier and better person. It's something I wish I had done years ago, but I didn't."

Mehlman told Ambinder that he had recently come to the conclusion that he is gay and was looking to become an advocate for gay marriage. He went public in part because he expected to be asked about his sexuality when it became known he was participating in a fundraiser next month for the American Foundation for Equal Rights (AFER), which is supporting a legal challenge to California's Proposition 8 initiative banning gay marriage.

Ken Mehlman, Bush Campaign Manager, Comes Out as Gay - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

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And now he supports gay-marriage.

Re: Bush-Cheney campaign manager, ex-chairman of Republican Party set to come out as

double post

Re: Bush-Cheney campaign manager, ex-chairman of Republican Party set to come out as

Who cares? Other than as a Gay Jew, he certainly breaks the left's characterizations of the Republican Party.

Re: Bush-Cheney campaign manager, ex-chairman of Republican Party set to come out as

mac said:

Who cares? Other than as a Gay Jew, he certainly breaks the left's characterizations of the Republican Party.

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So I am not "the left" now?

Re: Bush-Cheney campaign manager, ex-chairman of Republican Party set to come out as

Redress said:

So I am not "the left" now?

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Oh no, you certainly are. Just not the entire left. Besides, despite being a lefty-looney, you're fairly easy to converse with. More so than many I know on the far right.

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

VanceMack said:

SUre...no different than my vote restricts polygamists from unrestriced marriage or brothers and sisters. Are you petitioning for them as well?

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Again with the polygamy and incest lie.

Are polygamists and siblings marrying in any of the nations I mentioned? Are they marrying in Iowa, Massachusetts, Connecticutt, New Hampshire, or Vermont? The answer is no.

It's been legally recognized in some parts of the world for nearly a decade now and your fear hasn't come to fruition anywhere.

So, if that's your fear, you can be reassured that it won't happen. And about your gay friends, they would be very rare in my world. I've met only one person who doesn't really care about gay marriage and he's considerably older and is simply happy, in his words, to "not feel threatened to be beaten all the time." For someone of his age, that probably is enough. I'm sure for some older African-Americans, not being beaten anymore was enough, too. But the next generation wants to more fully participate in society as an equal.

For gays and lesbians, marriage is the final stage that the nation is allowing them to fully participate as equal citizens. If you're against that, you are telling them that you believe they are NOT fully equal as citizens. It may not be your intent, but it's the message that's received. I'm sorry for you that this debate frustrates you. But you have the right to marry and the right to do with your life as you wish.

Now imagine the frustration if YOU were the one being told you couldn't marry and support the person you love. Wouldn't you be even more frustrated? I'm sorry, but I won't let you play the victim here. Your frustration is nothing compared to the frustrations of those who want to legally share their lives with one another and have the country who takes their tax dollars treat them the same as their neighbors. I only wish you knew what that frustration feels like. If you did, I'd imagine your views would be different.

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

FilmFestGuy said:

Again with the polygamy and incest lie.

Are polygamists and siblings marrying in any of the nations I mentioned? Are they marrying in Iowa, Massachusetts, Connecticutt, New Hampshire, or Vermont? The answer is no.

It's been legally recognized in some parts of the world for nearly a decade now and your fear hasn't come to fruition anywhere.

So, if that's your fear, you can be reassured that it won't happen. And about your gay friends, they would be very rare in my world. I've met only one person who doesn't really care about gay marriage and he's considerably older and is simply happy, in his words, to "not feel threatened to be beaten all the time." For someone of his age, that probably is enough. I'm sure for some older African-Americans, not being beaten anymore was enough, too. But the next generation wants to more fully participate in society as an equal.

For gays and lesbians, marriage is the final stage that the nation is allowing them to fully participate as equal citizens. If you're against that, you are telling them that you believe they are NOT fully equal as citizens. It may not be your intent, but it's the message that's received. I'm sorry for you that this debate frustrates you. But you have the right to marry and the right to do with your life as you wish.

Now imagine the frustration if YOU were the one being told you couldn't marry and support the person you love. Wouldn't you be even more frustrated? I'm sorry, but I won't let you play the victim here. Your frustration is nothing compared to the frustrations of those who want to legally share their lives with one another and have the country who takes their tax dollars treat them the same as their neighbors. I only wish you knew what that frustration feels like. If you did, I'd imagine your views would be different.

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Im sorry you feel that way...

Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

VanceMack said:

Im sorry you feel that way...

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Thanks, I suppose - but what I would have preferred is that you used empathy to simply try to understand the argument from another point of view.

You say you feel frustrated by this argument; but I'm trying to get you to imagine living a life where you're told that you're relationship isn't worth the same.

If you had two brothers - one straight, one gay - how would you tell your gay brother that you value his relationship less than your straight brother's? And how would you imagine he would take that? Could you imagine trying to hear that from someone?

Re: Bush-Cheney campaign manager, ex-chairman of Republican Party set to come out as

My sympathies go out to his family and children.

Re: Bush-Cheney campaign manager, ex-chairman of Republican Party set to come out as

VanceMack said:

Yawn...

What exactly is an 'anti-gay' campaign? I must have missed their efforts to stop gayness...

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Haven't you heard? If you don't believe in gay marriage you are a horrible bigot and probably a racist.

Re: Bush-Cheney campaign manager, ex-chairman of Republican Party set to come out as

texmaster said:

Haven't you heard? If you don't believe in gay marriage you are a horrible bigot and probably a racist.

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With the way you seem to simplify the left, then why is it unfair to generalize those against gay marriage. If you can state that the left is not one monolithic group who agrees about everything, then I can agree that there are many motivations to be against gay marriage.

However, since most people here seem to be most comfortable dealing in generalizations, I don't see why one is more unfair than another.

But if we can have nuanced debate, then yes. But I challenge you to answer the question that I asked of VanceMack - a question that remains unanswered - if you'd like to discuss the issue in death.

Further, his family needs no sympathy. He's not dead. So your not really doing much for your argument that your not a little bigoted against gays.

Re: Bush-Cheney campaign manager, ex-chairman of Republican Party set to come out as

AmericanSon316 said:

This is another lies about Republicons. MY president George Walker Bush would never work with a gay.

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Sure.

Re: Bush-Cheney campaign manager, ex-chairman of Republican Party set to come out as

FilmFestGuy said:

With the way you seem to simplify the left, then why is it unfair to generalize those against gay marriage. If you can state that the left is not one monolithic group who agrees about everything, then I can agree that there are many motivations to be against gay marriage.

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Of course but that doesn't negate the fact many on the left use bigot to describe anyone who is against gay marriage.

But if we can have nuanced debate, then yes. But I challenge you to answer the question that I asked of VanceMack - a question that remains unanswered - if you'd like to discuss the issue in death.

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I'm assuming you meant in depth. And name the question. If you agree to anaswer one of my own on the same issue.

Further, his family needs no sympathy. He's not dead. So your not really doing much for your argument that your not a little bigoted against gays.

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LOL Just after you make a big deal that all lefties aren't the same you come right back with the bigoted lie.

I'll give you a hint Film guy. You are intolerant of anyone who is against gay marriage so you are no less a bigot than the people you are against. Way to go.

And absolutely his family need sympathy. He has been married to a woman, has kids with that woman and has now decided to abandon that commitment with an entire new sexual orientation.

How can that not be a betrayal of the most basic moral principles he has been behind the past decades of his marriage?

Are you really so far gone you can't see how humiliating this is for his children not to mention his wife?