Page 17 of 18 FirstFirst ... 715161718 LastLast
Results 161 to 170 of 175

Thread: Bush-Cheney campaign manager, ex-chairman of Republican Party set to come out as gay

  1. #161
    Professor

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Last Seen
    11-21-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,120

    Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    This is me laughing at you.

    This is precisely why I dont go to the gay marriage threads. I can offer my love and respect without endorsing behavior i dont agree with...and invariably intolerant assholes jump in with "AAAAUUUUGGGHHH YOU ARE A BIGOT!!! YOU ARE A RACIST". So I just dont bother.

    So now instead of offering my first response...the "Im sorry you feel that way" comment, then because of your response may may feel free to assume my second response...
    On one hand - you say you love someone. On the other, you say you value their relationship as less than your own or others.

    Why? And I do "tolerate" your views and respect your right to have them. But why do I just have to accept them if I believe they are wrong?

  2. #162
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,714

    Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    I've been waiting for one answer to one question and now that I know it's in your real life: how do you tell them that you value their relationship less than someone else's?
    Oh no...Ive ANSWERED your question...you just dont like the answer. Your ploy is 'supposed' to make me feel bad that I dont change my opinion just because people i know and care about are gay.

    We are done with this discussion, you and I. I have no desire to communicate with an angry, hate filled intolerant bigot that cant respect other peoples opinions. Shame on you. You MIGHT consider practicing some of that tolerance and acceptance you preach. Or not. You and people like you are the reason why some folk go from being accepting and understanding while not full on embracing to adversarial.

  3. #163
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,714

    Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    On one hand - you say you love someone. On the other, you say you value their relationship as less than your own or others.

    Why? And I do "tolerate" your views and respect your right to have them. But why do I just have to accept them if I believe they are wrong?
    Im guessing you cant see the irony in the response you just gave...

  4. #164
    Professor

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Last Seen
    11-21-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,120

    Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Im guessing you cant see the irony in the response you just gave...
    From Google dictionary:

    tol∑er∑ate/ˈtšləˌrāt/Verb
    1. Allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

    ac∑cept/ śkˈsɛpt/Verb (used with object)
    1. To take or receive (something offered); receive with approval or favor

    See the difference? I tolerate your views. I do not accept them. There is a difference.

    It's not intolerant to challenge someone's view if you believe it to be wrong from your moral perspective.

    If an Evangelical knocks on my door and tries to convert me to their interpretation of Christianity, are they being intolerant? By your definition, yes.

    By my definition, no. They're trying to change my mind. They might even offend me with something they say (God knows it's happened before), but that doesn't make them intolerant.

    I honestly didn't want to offend you and will apologize if I have. But I'm seriously trying to understand the motivation. I don't doubt your love for your family. But it seems to me that in a debate on equality, you're not siding with them. That's the part I have a hard time with.

    I could never vote to prevent someone I love from finding their happiness (if said happiness is legal and with a consenting adult).

  5. #165
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    05-06-12 @ 11:12 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    9,800

    Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    I could never vote to prevent someone I love from finding their happiness (if said happiness is legal and with a consenting adult).
    Well, I can tell you what my viciously abusive, deranged lunatic of a mother said when I tried (as an adult) to confront her on the damage she did as a parent.

    *No insult intended, Mr. Mack*

    "It's like give a six year-old crayons and telling them to create a Van Gogh. They can't. Whatever Van Gogh possessed that made such beauty possible, they don't have. They just draw a picture, doing the best they can with what they've got. And that's what I did."

    I think VM is right on the point that given who he is, his life experiences, what he has seen, learned, and believed - he is doing the best he can with what he has. And that is tolerance.

  6. #166
    Professor

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Last Seen
    11-21-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,120

    Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

    VM,

    I speak to this from the point of having a sister-in-law who refuses to speak to half of her family over this issue because she's SO offended by homosexuality that she's ensconced herself in a Pennsylvania trailer (not implying that everyone against gay marriage lives in a trailer) and refuses to speak to her parents because they didn't kick out the gay son.

    As a result, her children don't see their grandparents their uncles and cousins.

    So again, I'm sorry if I get a little angry at times and I'm sorry to have over-spoken.

    I do tolerate your view. I'm just trying to get to heart of it because it is difficult for me to understand it. (And, of course, it would be amazing if you changed your mind, but I'm aware that's unlikely to happen).

  7. #167
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    I could never vote to prevent someone I love from finding their happiness (if said happiness is legal and with a consenting adult).
    "Legal" is not an abstract concept, it's something that society decides. Unless you're saying you'd support a ban on sodomy in a state where it was already legal, whether or not the law says that something is permitted is irrelevant to the moral question.

    If you found out that your sister was in love with your brother, would you tell her that you value her happiness and relationship less than you value that of everyone else?
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 08-30-10 at 03:18 PM.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  8. #168
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,714

    Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Well, I can tell you what my viciously abusive, deranged lunatic of a mother said when I tried (as an adult) to confront her on the damage she did as a parent.

    *No insult intended, Mr. Mack*

    "It's like give a six year-old crayons and telling them to create a Van Gogh. They can't. Whatever Van Gogh possessed that made such beauty possible, they don't have. They just draw a picture, doing the best they can with what they've got. And that's what I did."

    I think VM is right on the point that given who he is, his life experiences, what he has seen, learned, and believed - he is doing the best he can with what he has. And that is tolerance.

    Not sure...but I think the Good Reverend would approve of this as a backhanded compliment...I believe that is his precursor to dating...

    If my views were such that the death penalty was right and i believed in it, but then a child of mine committed an act deserving of it, should i then change my position because it is no longer convenient?

    Conversely, If I was opposed to the death penalty should I change that view because someone I care about was killed?

    If I am opposed to abortion do I suddenly become pro abortion just because a child of mine decides she needs to have one? If I am pro abortion do I suddenly become anti abortion ecause the girlfriend of a son of mine wants to terminate his baby?

    I dont alter my beliefs and morals based on whether or not they are convenient. I have a positive relationship with my children and in laws. I am very much comfortable loving them, standing for their happiness, even if I disagree with their choices. You alter your views however you choose. Not my business. I dont CARE if you would be happy your son was gay. I say good for you...good for BOTH of you. If one of my own children told me that I would say...find love...find happiness. I wouldnt kick them out, banish them from my presence, or treat them or their partner badly. That I disagree with them would be something THEY would have to consider. If I have a child that said dad...Sally and I have decided we are going to get pregnant and live together and not get married I would have the same response. Again...up to THEM to be all pissy if (or that) I disapprove. Up to ME to continue to treat them with love and respect.
    Last edited by VanceMack; 08-30-10 at 03:35 PM.

  9. #169
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,714

    Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    VM,

    I speak to this from the point of having a sister-in-law who refuses to speak to half of her family over this issue because she's SO offended by homosexuality that she's ensconced herself in a Pennsylvania trailer (not implying that everyone against gay marriage lives in a trailer) and refuses to speak to her parents because they didn't kick out the gay son.

    As a result, her children don't see their grandparents their uncles and cousins.

    So again, I'm sorry if I get a little angry at times and I'm sorry to have over-spoken.

    I do tolerate your view. I'm just trying to get to heart of it because it is difficult for me to understand it. (And, of course, it would be amazing if you changed your mind, but I'm aware that's unlikely to happen).
    I appreciate very much your words. I hope some day your family can know happiness. I think thats an individual choice. I think the situation you describe is tragic and absolutely unnecessary. Sounds to me like the person totally offended could use a little help herself. Again...I hope for your families healing and happiness.

  10. #170
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,714

    Re: Ken Mehlman reveals he's gay

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    From Google dictionary:

    tol∑er∑ate/ˈtšləˌrāt/Verb
    1. Allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

    ac∑cept/ śkˈsɛpt/Verb (used with object)
    1. To take or receive (something offered); receive with approval or favor

    See the difference? I tolerate your views. I do not accept them. There is a difference.

    It's not intolerant to challenge someone's view if you believe it to be wrong from your moral perspective.

    If an Evangelical knocks on my door and tries to convert me to their interpretation of Christianity, are they being intolerant? By your definition, yes.

    By my definition, no. They're trying to change my mind. They might even offend me with something they say (God knows it's happened before), but that doesn't make them intolerant.

    I honestly didn't want to offend you and will apologize if I have. But I'm seriously trying to understand the motivation. I don't doubt your love for your family. But it seems to me that in a debate on equality, you're not siding with them. That's the part I have a hard time with.

    I could never vote to prevent someone I love from finding their happiness (if said happiness is legal and with a consenting adult).
    The problem is not with the definition of tolerance or approval. the IRONY comes with your comment...why do I just have to accept them if I believe they are wrong. And my response is very simply...thats precisely what I have said for 93 posts now. I have stated I can love and accept people and respect their decisions and choices, even if I view their choices and lifestyle as 'wrong'. Acceptance of them doesnt require me to change. And I dont expect you to change.

Page 17 of 18 FirstFirst ... 715161718 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •