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Thread: Rush, Beck & Obama Muslim Poll

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    Re: Rush, Beck & Obama Muslim Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    What I mean is that Rev. Wright's church was more political than spiritual. I don't believe a true Christian would put up with that. Preachers shouldn't rant about political crap from the pulpit. That's not the purpose of worship.

    Do you honestly believe Obama had no clue that Rev. Wright was such a hate-filled racist? Or do you think Rev. Wright isn't a hate-filled racist?
    It's not a matter of what Rev. Wright believes. It's a matter of what he espoused which in this case was anti-American commentary. In that context, the talking heads have successfully - wrongfully, IMO - connected Pres. Obama w/Muslim extremist's anti-American ideology. The question of Pres. Obama's religious preference is irrelevent in this context. What is is the continued play on the notion that the President is just as anti-American as the Muslim extremist. By making this "link" to anti-Americanism, the talking heads can and will continue to play on the fears of their listeners.

    Think...I mean really think...about what's being said right now. Think about how everything is being painted with such a broad brush. Filter out the white-noise and listen...
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-21-10 at 02:22 PM.

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    Re: Rush, Beck & Obama Muslim Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    It's not a matter of what Rev. Wright believes. It's a matter of what he espoused which in this case was anti-American commentary. In that context, the talking heads have successfully - wrongfully, IMO - connected Pres. Obama w/Muslim extremist's anti-American ideology. The of Pres. Obama's religious preference is irrelevent in this context. What is is the continued play on the notion that the President is just as anti-American as the Muslim extremist. By making this "link" to anti-Americanism, the talking heads can and will continue to play on the fears of their listeners.

    Think...I mean really think...about what's being said right now. Think about how everything is being painted with such a broad brush. Filter out the white-noise and listen...
    Obama's affiliation with Rev Wright has always been of concern to some on the right, even before the election. It was totally ignored in the left stream media. They were too busy hounding Sarah Palin. Or maybe they were hounding her to get our eyes off Rev. Wright and his church. Either way, if some on the right are still trying to get their point across, so what?
    Just because he won the election is no reason to think, "Oh we must have been wrong about Wright. We won't mention it again."

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    Re: Rush, Beck & Obama Muslim Poll

    Ann Coulter ( I know how just the mention of her name gets liberal panties in a wad, so couldn't resist) thinks he is an atheist. Maybe she's not far off.
    Really I think that is what most people here have been suggesting is that he is an atheist. Look at Clinton or George HW Bush, neither one of them were really big into the whole being religious thing but it was also a different time when people didn't care as much about stuff like that, they just were probably better of doing the pony show with it.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Rush, Beck & Obama Muslim Poll

    If you attend a church for 20 years that's lead by an anti-American racist, of course people are going to think you agree. If you didn't, why would you go there? Let alone call him a friend, a spiritual mentor, have him lead your marriage ceremony and baptize your kids....

    Father Pflegor is Obama's mentor as well. He's a REAL peach.


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    Re: Rush, Beck & Obama Muslim Poll

    Very well then, mention it. But do so in it's proper context, i.e., what has President Obama don't that no other President has done that is, in fact, un-American?

    Bow to foreign heads of state? Presidents since Nixon have done this.

    Accept gifts from foreing leaders? Presidents since Reagon have done this.

    Working with foreign leaders, specifically those from the Middle-East? Presidents since Eisenhower have done this.

    (See link dispelling some of these issues here.)

    Again, filter out the white-noise and discover the truth for yourselves! Stop listening to and relying solely upon what you're being told and instead get the knowledge for yourselves! I'm not saying throw out and ignore everything you read in the papers or hear in the media including talk radio. I am saying, however, take the time to stop, read between the lines, filter fact from BS and get to the truth on your own not just from one particular partisan source or another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    If you attend a church for 20 years that's lead by an anti-American racist, of course people are going to think you agree. If you didn't, why would you go there? Let alone call him a friend, a spiritual mentor, have him lead your marriage ceremony and baptize your kids....

    Father Pflegor is Obama's mentor as well. He's a REAL peach.
    All I can tell you is what I've said to others on this very same issue...

    I've been a member of my church for at least the last 8 years. Prior to that, I wasn't that religious (but I've always believed there is something more powerful than myself that exsists that guides all of us), but I had attended churches here and there at my discretion. It wasn't until I decided to pursue a better life of righteousness from within the Christian faith did I decide to start attending church on a more regular basis. I don't always agree with the things my Paster preaches. There are times when I think he gets an issue completely wrong and I've addressed such w/him in private. But as a whole, I believe he tries to teach from a Biblical basis. That, to me, is more important than his personal views.

    That aside, I don't think many white Americans understand the social-policial connection between the black church and politics. I've talked about this before in other threads. From the days of slavery to the Civil Rights era, the church was the only true "hiding place" African-Americans had where we could go and discuss many of the issues that affected our communities. So, for me as a Black man and as most African-Americans may even atest to, knowing that Rev. Wright has discussed social-political issues from the pulpit isn't as shocking to me/us as it might be to many Whites. It's been part of our social-political-spiritual dynamic for generations.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-21-10 at 02:54 PM.

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    Re: Rush, Beck & Obama Muslim Poll

    Atheist? Hmmm....that might be true. I don't know his heart, but his past religious experience is attending a black liberation theology church with anti-American hate-filled sermons. I can't even imagine my preacher talking politics from the pulpit. I'd walk out if he did.


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    Re: Rush, Beck & Obama Muslim Poll

    OV, I also ask you to filter out the white noise. I listen to talk radio everyday and none of those things are why I dislike the President. His policies are bad for the country: spending us into oblivion, being for the "second bill of rights", promoting unConstitutional laws like health care, etc. etc.. This isn't what our country was meant to be. We weren't meant to be slaves to our government. Bigger government is anti-freedom.


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    Re: Rush, Beck & Obama Muslim Poll

    But I do! I don't take just one issue and jump on it at face value. I try as best I can to do my own homework, i.e., actually reading the health care legistlation (which I'm still doing), trying to find the truth on various matter by researching them online or in public libraries. Health care reform, for example...not everything that's being said about it by the GOP is true. Unfortunately, the Democrats aren't doing a very good job of answering the question most Americans have, towit: "What's in it for me?"

    As to it's constitutionality, I'll leave that up to the Supreme Court to decide. Moreover, let's just leave that topic for another debate (if it hasn't already been debated to death by now in (an)other thread(s)).

    As for the President's policies, have you actually gone to WhiteHouse.gov and reviewed the bills the President has signed since taking office? How many of those bills are actually taking away your rights? Name one beside the health care bill (which according to our current way of obtaining health insurance isn't as problematic as many people have been led to believe, but like I said let's leave that for another debate.) The way I see it he's at least attempting to address many of the issues that have been largely ignored by his predecesor, i.e., energy independence, health care, unfair tax codes, improving education and/or making it more easily accessible and affordable to all, improving/strengthening foreign relations, financial regulatory reforms on both the private and corporate levels. These issues and others needed to be addressed in this country. You may not agree 100% with the way they're being addressed - I know I don't - but at least they're no longer being ignored.

    (And BTW, if people really knew how former President GW Bush trampled all over our freedoms, I think most folks would think again about what "freedoms" they think Pres. Obama is/has taken away. And this issue of bigger government...who established the Dept. of Homeland Security again? Not that it's a bad idea...consolidating all facets of our nation's gov't security agencies under one umbrella is a good thing, but to ignore the fact that this new department didn't increase the size of government thereby forming a new bueracracy is foolhearty. Good program, but who started it has been largely forgetten because many people, including myself, see it as a good thing because we like the idea that we're safer now than we were without it.)
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-21-10 at 03:20 PM.

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    Re: Rush, Beck & Obama Muslim Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    So, are you for tearing down the mosque that's closer to Ground Zero? Because basically what you and others are saying is that no mosque should be that close to those hallowed grounds.
    No we're not. We're saying that no new one's should be built there. To me, if it's hurting NYer's that lost loved ones, and they don't want it there, that's the way it should be.

    Also, and this is what I would love about it, is we're saying to all Muslim's who hate us, we ain't takin no **** from you.

    This imam (Rauf) needs checked out, and where the money's coming from. I think it's all very fishy. Imam Rauf wouldn't denounce Hamas, either. What kind of person wouldn't quickly denounce Hamas as a terrorist organization. It's listed as such by the State Dept.

    Excerpt from a New York Post article:

    Tom Brown, a chief opponent of the mosque, said: "This is what we've been saying . . . Imam Rauf is a radical Muslim who will not call Hamas a terror group."
    A retired firefighter who was a first responder on 9/11, Brown lost 100 of his FDNY friends at the Twin Towers.
    "How much evidence do we need that this guy is a radical Muslim?" he asked.
    "If Rauf really were a bridge builder and an interfaith guy and all the things he professes to be, he wouldn't be doing this to people."
    Abdul Rauf raised eyebrows last week when he departed on a State Department-sponsored goodwill mission to the Middle East, despite concerns that the trip may be helping him with the mosque's $100 million fund-raising goal.
    The Obama administration insisted the trip, reportedly with stops in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain and Qatar, was strictly to improve understanding about Muslim communities in the United States.
    But a London-based Arabic-language newspaper that interviewed Abdul Rauf reported that he said he would also collect money from Muslim and Arab nations around the world -- raising the possibility that the American government is helping him build contacts in oil-rich states.
    Read more: Hamas nod for Ground Zero mosque - NYPOST.com
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

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    Re: Rush, Beck & Obama Muslim Poll

    And your're taking the advice of a retired NY Firefighter who's position is clearly bias because he lost friends/coworkers/colleagues in the 9/11 attack as the truth as to what this Imam's intentions for building this community center is really about?

    I've said it from day-1 and I'll say it again, I understand the sensative nature behind the objections of those who don't want this community center/mosque built, but it's not being built on Ground Zero. Furthermore, if we're ever going to get beyond our misguided fears and, thereby stop lumping all Muslims in the same category as those who did us harm on that dreadful day, we have to start somewhere in forming peaceful relations between Islam and Christianity. It's this same religious ideology that has kept Isreal and Palestine apart for so many years. If we don't do that now, then this country will be no better off than we were when instead of arguing on religious ideals we instead nearly tore this country apart because of the color of our skin. Does it make much sense to you to return to such hateful, despicable times? Because if we continue on this path that's exactly where we're headed. And we give radical Islam the very Holy War they want.

    I'm not saying we cave in to avoid the unknown. I'm saying we march forward showing the very example of diplomacy and democracy we claim we're trying to spread around the world by setting the tone for peace right here and now within our own boarders.

    (And BTW, I agree with following the money trail. It's the one rational position I'd agree with on the side of the opposition on this matter. Follow it just as we did in the days following 9/11, and if it is determined that contributors are sponsors of terrorism and that the Imam or members of the community center's leadership were aware of its true origins, you let local and federal law enforcement do what they do including shutting the place down if they must. But if such should happen, at least we keep our founding priciples and the rule of law intact.)
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-21-10 at 03:54 PM.

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