It sounds like anti-liberty to me.
Then they are not good muslims. Islam by definition means submission. Muslims must submit totally to Allah. Unlike christianity muslims do not get to choose which parts of the Qu'ran to disregard. If they do they are not muslims at all.
So many people taking so much joy in disallowing American citizens from enacting their protected civil rights.
#1 - It's 2 blocks from Ground Zero - so it's not a "Ground Zero Mosque".
#2 - It's an Islamic Community Center that include - along with prayer space - a basketball court, a theater, and is open to the entire public. Thus, it is not only NOT a "Ground Zero Mosque" because it's not at Ground Zero, it's also not even a Mosque - no more than St. Mary's Hospital is a Church because it has a chapel in it.
#3 - This is a yet another instance of Conservatives (and wimpy a-holes like Harry Reid) reveling in the restriction of someone's rights. Gotta take away the rights of gays in California to marry; gotta prevent Muslims from building a Community Center; gotta take citizenship rights away from immigrants.
The only threat to freedom I see comes from the likes of Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, and their supporters.
If you are against this, then you are in favor of any group preventing the construction of any building on private land anywhere simply because they might take offense to it. Go ahead. Open that can of worms.
It will very likely get built and there will be people who will build it - in a down economy (especially for construction workers), intelligent beings will take the money.
Good ol' filmfest guy. There you go throwing the facts in to the argument ruining everything.:lamo
Except it was all subjective opinion. :shrug:
#1 - It's 2 blocks from Ground Zero - so it's not a "Ground Zero Mosque".
#2 - It's an Islamic Community Center that include - along with prayer space - a basketball court, a theater, and is open to the entire public. Thus, it is not only NOT a "Ground Zero Mosque" because it's not at Ground Zero, it's also not even a Mosque - no more than St. Mary's Hospital is a Church because it has a chapel in it.
Oh really? So the following are subjective opinon? if you trully believe that, you need to get out a dictionary and look up the word subjective.
Two blocks being a subjective distance designation for it to be in a location or not.
The amount of dedicated prayer space it takes to be a mosque or not--entirely subjective measure.
Maybe you need to be busting out that dictionary yourself there, chuckles.
Thanks for playing though.
Riiiiiiight!
Indeed.You are entitled to your opinion of the man. I personally don't know enough about him to say, but based on his actions I don't really have a problem with him.
I know I am correct on this. Thank you for your quick concession.
The remainder of your post was just idiotic sputtering and blathering with appeals to the absurd. As such, I simply disregard it.
Has it ever occurred to you that if you have to keep telling yourself you've won you must be insecure, not to mention you lack a grasp on reality?
Now that is subjective! Not the location of a building!
Oh really? So the following are subjective opinon? if you trully believe that, you need to get out a dictionary and look up the word subjective.
No those are both just out and out lies.
The building IS ground zero, it was struck by a huge piece of one of the actual planes that hit the towers.
This is not a Community Center. They will not be offering religious services for any non-Muslim members of the community, they will be offering religious services to only Muslims, non-Muslims will be allowed entry the same as anyother Mosque so that they may receive Dawa.
Mosque - any place of Muslim worship. A jami-masjid or Friday Mosque is a major mosque where weekly prayer services are performed and a sermon or khutbah is given.
It's literally the textbook defintion of a Mosque.
This is a community center like Evangelical Mega-Churches are community centers.
The aim of the building as a whole is not 'Muslim worship'. It will have an area within it for Muslim worship, but that's it - and to call anywhere with a prayer room a 'mosque' is outright dishonest - for example, many schools in the UK have a prayer room. To quote: "The facility's design includes a 500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare area, bookstore, culinary school, art studio, food court, September 11th memorial, and prayer space that could accommodate 1,000–2,000 people.[7][8]"No those are both just out and out lies.
The building IS ground zero, it was struck by a huge piece of one of the actual planes that hit the towers.
This is not a Community Center. They will not be offering religious services for any non-Muslim members of the community, they will be offering religious services to only Muslims, non-Muslims will be allowed entry the same as anyother Mosque so that they may receive Dawa.
Mosque - any place of Muslim worship. A jami-masjid or Friday Mosque is a major mosque where weekly prayer services are performed and a sermon or khutbah is given.
It's literally the textbook defintion of a Mosque.
This is a community center like Evangelical Mega-Churches are community centers.
* outstanding recreation spaces and fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court)
* a 500-seat auditorium
* a restaurant and culinary school
* cultural amenities including exhibitions
* education programs
* a library, reading room and art studios
* childcare services
* a mosque, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community
* a September 11th memorial and quiet contemplation space, open to all
Yeah, doesn't sound like a community center at ALL. :roll:
And two blocks away is NOT ground zero. It's - get this - two blocks AWAY from it. You can't even see ground zero from the building. Not that it even ****ing matters.
Indeed.
I've been doing a little research on the basis that I knew nothing more than what the anti-mosque people have been saying, and my opinion of Rauf is rising with everything I find. He wrote a book called "What's right with Islam" - you can read an excerpt from it here. In it, he argues that Armerica best represents "Islam's true values", refers to "the waging of peace" as the greatest Jihad, argues that the 9/11 bombers were breaking Sharia law and that Muslim troops in the US army are justified in fighting against other Muslims, and argues for a pluralistic, multi-religious society. To quote directly from the book: "We strive for... a time when Jews, Christians, Muslims, and all other faith traditions will live together in peace, enjoying a renewed vision of what the good society can look like. In this good society all religious voices are welcome and given maximum freedom, and no one religion (or even atheism) is allowed to inhibit any other. Towards this dream we aspire"
But noooooooooo, it's a 'victory mosque' and he's an anti-American Islamist, because some right-wing bloggers have quotemined him and you shouldn't question something that which confirms your own biases. Seriously?
The aim of the building as a whole is not 'Muslim worship'. It will have an area within it for Muslim worship, but that's it - and to call anywhere with a prayer room a 'mosque' is outright dishonest - for example, many schools in the UK have a prayer room. To quote: "The facility's design includes a 500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare area, bookstore, culinary school, art studio, food court, September 11th memorial, and prayer space that could accommodate 1,000–2,000 people.[7][8]"
Actually, that sounds quite a lot like the various buildings at the University I went to. I never knew I was at a mosque all that time...
EDIT: Dammit, beaten by rivarrt. *fist-shakey*
The aim of the building as a whole is not 'Muslim worship'. It will have an area within it for Muslim worship, but that's it - and to call anywhere with a prayer room a 'mosque' is outright dishonest - for example, many schools in the UK have a prayer room. To quote: "The facility's design includes a 500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare area, bookstore, culinary school, art studio, food court, September 11th memorial, and prayer space that could accommodate 1,000–2,000 people.[7][8]"
Actually, that sounds quite a lot like the various buildings at the University I went to. I never knew I was at a mosque all that time...
EDIT: Dammit, beaten by rivarrt. *fist-shakey*
* outstanding recreation spaces and fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court)
* a 500-seat auditorium
* a restaurant and culinary school
* cultural amenities including exhibitions
* education programs
* a library, reading room and art studios
* childcare services
* a mosque, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community
* a September 11th memorial and quiet contemplation space, open to all
Yeah, doesn't sound like a community center at ALL. :roll:
And two blocks away is NOT ground zero. It's - get this - two blocks AWAY from it. You can't even see ground zero from the building. Not that it even ****ing matters.
The 911 Hard Hat Pledge
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, in addition to the various proposals for gay bars and bacon street vending at the mosque, lets have some old fashioned picket lines, too.
Whereas I've just given you a quote where he directly calls for a pluralistic, tolerant society, and evidence that he condemnes the 9/11 bombers.lol this guy says that the U.S. has more blood on its hands than Al Qaeda, that the U.S. was an accessory to 9-11, that OBL was made in the USA, refuses to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization, and advocates Sharia law.
Why does this make something 'not a mosque'? It's an Islamic community centre - in other words, it's biased. That doesn't stop it being a community centre, though - it doesn't prevent non-Muslims from benefitting from the rest of it.Agent Ferris said:Will they be offering religious services to other members of the community? Non-Muslims will be allowed in so that they may receive Dawa the same as any other Mosque.
That's not a reason to call it a mosque, though. It has far more purposes than Islam-related ones.Jallman said:So wait...the prayer space is nearly 4 times that of the auditorium and you don't see how some people might view the function of the building to be more mosque oriented than community center oriented?
[citation needed]
What proof do you have?
Ground Zero, if you ask the common person, is a SPECIFIC spot on or next to which this project is not.
Ever think that debris... travels? Debris was found a great distance from the respective crash sites, yet that doesn't magically make that place the crash site itself.
If they are really dedicated, they will find a way to get what they need.
So basically, you have no proof at all?
Can we stick to analogies and questions relevant to AMERICA since this is going on in AMERICA and not thousands of miles away in a different country with different values?
A country thousands of miles away with different cultural values etc should NEVER be used as a proxy to determine who gets rights in America and who doesn't. Our constitution/bill of rights is.
Actually, Ground Zero itself is a subjective designation. The site of the old WTC is a 16 acre area with specific boundaries but the term Ground Zero isn't restricted by objective boundaries. Two blocks is not far enough away to reasonably state that it isn't the ground zero area. Two blocks from what, exactly?
Well, except for the whole community center part of it that's open to anyone, sure.No it doesn't, will they be offering religious services for other members of the community? This is a community center like Evangelical Mega-Churches with similar facilities are community centers IE they're not.
Says who?English not your first language? This building is ground zero,
it was struck by a huge piece of landing gear from one of the planes that struck the towers. That's ground zero by any reasonable definition of ground zero.