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Thread: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

  1. #191
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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    And you seriously wouldn't question the motivations of people who would propose building an Orthodox Church there?
    Why would I? I don't judge all adherents to an entire religion based on a few extremists who call themselves part of said religion. What mythology someone adheres to is irrelevant to me.

    In this country, we don't question the "motives" of people who want to build churches, open businesses, open community centers, etc. That's not part of the process. They get permits, they build. Their motives are irrelevant.

  2. #192
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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Maybe you should stop trying to convince everyone (including yourself) that you're right, and simply move on. That would be the thing to do if you're truly secure in what you believe. It would be less of a waste of your own energy, and that of others. Just a suggestion.
    I've only said I'm right once. The other party has done so numerous times in the thread with infantile comments like, you lose blah blah blah. Perhaps you should pay attention to the context before you butt in with a suggestion?
    Last edited by EnigmaO01; 08-24-10 at 12:47 AM.

  3. #193
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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    * outstanding recreation spaces and fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court)
    * a 500-seat auditorium
    * a restaurant and culinary school
    * cultural amenities including exhibitions
    * education programs
    * a library, reading room and art studios
    * childcare services
    * a church, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community
    * a September 11th memorial and quiet contemplation space, open to all

    Yeah, doesn't sound like a mega-church at ALL.

    And its part of ground zero. It's - get this - zero blocks AWAY from it. You can even see ground zero from the building because the building is part of ground zero. Not that it even ****ing matters.
    There you go riv, I fixed that for you. btw when did you become a dhimmi? or have you become a muslim. By the looks of your avatar you are well on your way to gaining less importance than live stock, that would be a muslim woman In case you are not familier with the Qu'ran yet.
    Last edited by SgtRock; 08-24-10 at 12:56 AM.
    When America is strong the world is calm, When America is weak tyrants and terrorist slaughter the meek. ~ SgtRock

  4. #194
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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Why would I? I don't judge all adherents to an entire religion based on a few extremists who call themselves part of said religion. What mythology someone adheres to is irrelevant to me.
    It's this little emotion called empathy, if you can't understand why building an Orthodox Cathedral in the town of Srebrenica would be highly inappropriate then you must be lacking it.

    In this country, we don't question the "motives" of people who want to build churches, open businesses, open community centers, etc. That's not part of the process. They get permits, they build. Their motives are irrelevant.
    Who is this "we" that doesn't question motives? Why shouldn't we question the motives of this organization exactly?

  5. #195
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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    It's this little emotion called empathy, if you can't understand why building an Orthodox Cathedral in the town of Srebrenica would be highly inappropriate then you must be lacking it.
    I do agree that, especially since most people still believe that muslims are solely responsible for 9-11, that it would be distasteful to put a mosque in such a close proximity... but this is the first thing that I've agreed with Obama on, when he said that it's not his issue to interfere.

    So, he does have the RIGHT to build it at that location, but there is no reason why the owner should not be willing to, in the name of diplomacy build this center in a place that wouldn't instigate further alienation of americans with the muslim world. Unless this is the intention of the owners, in which case people are taking the bait.

    Who is this "we" that doesn't question motives? Why shouldn't we question the motives of this organization exactly?
    Here's the distinction : Legally, there's no reason to question their motives... not without any sort of evidence to suggest something wrong... but on a personal level, I do question why they are so insistent on this particular location... it's generating alot of unnecessary tensions.

    Edit : But on the same token, if builders simply refuse the work, as it is in the workers rights to decide which projects he will or will not take on, and no contractors will take on the job... well, the owner will be forced into a different location that won't generate such resentment.
    Last edited by BmanMcfly; 08-24-10 at 01:53 AM.

  6. #196
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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    I do agree that, especially since most people still believe that muslims are solely responsible for 9-11, that it would be distasteful to put a mosque in such a close proximity... but this is the first thing that I've agreed with Obama on, when he said that it's not his issue to interfere.

    So, he does have the RIGHT to build it at that location, but there is no reason why the owner should not be willing to, in the name of diplomacy build this center in a place that wouldn't instigate further alienation of americans with the muslim world. Unless this is the intention of the owners, in which case people are taking the bait.
    Yes he clearly has the right to build the Mosque, I don't think anyone is questioning that right we are questioning why there? It's not that all Muslims are responsible for 9-11 but aside from putting up the Mosque itself there is good reason to question this guys motivations considering his past statements.

    Here's the distinction : Legally, there's no reason to question their motives... not without any sort of evidence to suggest something wrong... but on a personal level, I do question why they are so insistent on this particular location... it's generating alot of unnecessary tensions.

    Edit : But on the same token, if builders simply refuse the work, as it is in the workers rights to decide which projects he will or will not take on, and no contractors will take on the job... well, the owner will be forced into a different location that won't generate such resentment.
    The state has no right to intervene and I would be more opposed to state intervention than to the building of the Mosque itself, but I am adamantly opposed to the building of the Mosque and will exercise my own rights to try and stop it from getting built, that's how it works in a free society, you don't counter the negative use of liberty with cracking down on liberty, you counter it with more liberty.

  7. #197
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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    It's this little emotion called empathy, if you can't understand why building an Orthodox Cathedral in the town of Srebrenica would be highly inappropriate then you must be lacking it.
    Again, I don't judge all adherents to an entire religion based on a few extremists who call themselves part of said religion. The events of Srebrenica and the events of 9/11 are completely and totally separate from the building of some house of worship.

    Who is this "we" that doesn't question motives? Why shouldn't we question the motives of this organization exactly?
    So, any time a church or other house of mythology worship, or any building, house, etc tries to get the permits to build, we question their motives? That's part of the process of building something? Is there a government form for the "motives" or is it just verbal exchange?
    Last edited by rivrrat; 08-24-10 at 09:53 AM.

  8. #198
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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by iangb View Post
    That's not a reason to call it a mosque, though. It has far more purposes than Islam-related ones.
    Like I said, it's all subjective. However, one thing that cannot be disputed, by the very sources cited to dispel this simple fact, is that a significant portion of the center is dedicated prayer space. Mince it any way you want but the fact is, the majority of the space is dedicated to being a house of worship.

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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Ah more subjective thinking.

    Umm, yeah. So since you can recognize subjectivity versus objectivity, why are you having such a hard time with the rest it?


    Do you have memory problems? Remember when you said this in response to ALL of the points that were made?
    Yes I do, and I stand by that. You've yet to show any objectivity at all.


    I could say something infantile like "you lose" but I'll refrain as I have no insecurities. I'm just right.
    I could say something truthful and objective about how the need for psychiatric meds in certain posters but I'll refrain just out of politeness. I'm just chuckling to myself at your absurdity.

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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    I've only said I'm right once. The other party has done so numerous times in the thread with infantile comments like, you lose blah blah blah. Perhaps you should pay attention to the context before you butt in with a suggestion?
    Oh so now we're gonna go really subjective and cross over into blatant lying and dishonesty...

    No surprise there, chuckles.

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