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Thread: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Really? What equivocation have I begun? You made a false analogy between the YMCA and the Cordoba House, the YMCA does not offer religious services let alone religious services to only a specific religion, the Cordoba House offers religious services to Muslims and Muslims only.

    You, also, gave a false definition for the term "Islamist," by asserting that an Islamist is simply an Islamic scholar, whereas, the fact is that an Islamist is an anti-secular pro-Sharia Muslim, this man is not a secular Muslim he is an Islamist.
    Look dude, I don't care about your little word differentiations and equivocating instance A to instance B. The argument has descended into meaningless drivel, just like its premise. The people building the community centre are not terrorists, no matter how much propaganda gets spun by the pundits to paint them as such. People just don't like Islam because the only thing they know about it is that some crazy people reciting the Koran crashed themselves into the World Trade Centre almost 10 years ago. That's the extent of it.

    I don't really care what ignorant arguments people make. I support the community centre because I support freedom. If your ideas differ then oh well. Have fun expressing them. I am now going to stop listening.

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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Look dude, I don't care about your little word differentiations and equivocating instance A to instance B. The argument has descended into meaningless drivel, just like its premise. The people building the community centre are not terrorists, no matter how much propaganda gets spun by the pundits to paint them as such.
    You are correct they are not terrorists, however, Imam Rauf is an Islamist not a secular Muslim and is part of the problem with mainstream Islam today.

    People just don't like Islam because the only thing they know about it is that some crazy people reciting the Koran crashed themselves into the World Trade Centre almost 10 years ago. That's the extent of it.
    No I don't like Islam because currently in all five mainstream schools of Islamic Fiqh apostasy, adultery, homosexuality, and premarital sex are capital and/or corporal offenses. Now this Imam asserts that he opposes the stringent punishments in Sharia but what he is not said is that he is opposed to Sharia itself and in fact openly advocates a Sharia compliant U.S. which means that he supports the criminalization of the aforementioned actions if not the same brutal punishments for those actions. I have no problem with secular Muslims but I have a huge problem with Islamists.

    I don't really care what ignorant arguments people make. I support the community centre because I support freedom. If your ideas differ then oh well. Have fun expressing them. I am now going to stop listening.
    It's not a community center they will not be offering religious services to non-Muslim members of the community, it is a Mosque.

  3. #123
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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    You are correct they are not terrorists, however, Imam Rauf is an Islamist not a secular Muslim and is part of the problem with mainstream Islam today.
    You are entitled to your opinion of the man. I personally don't know enough about him to say, but based on his actions I don't really have a problem with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    No I don't like Islam because currently in all five mainstream schools of Islamic Fiqh apostasy, adultery, homosexuality, and premarital sex are capital and/or corporal offenses. Now this Imam asserts that he opposes the stringent punishments in Sharia but what he is not said is that he is opposed to Sharia itself and in fact openly advocates a Sharia compliant U.S. which means that he supports the criminalization of the aforementioned actions if not the same brutal punishments for those actions. I have no problem with secular Muslims but I have a huge problem with Islamists.
    That seems like a really nitpicky reason to not want the community centre built.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    It's not a community center they will not be offering religious services to non-Muslim members of the community, it is a Mosque.
    The general public will be able to go there to partake in the various activities offered in the centre, including sports and learning workshops. It will also have open spaces for rent for various cultural activities. That makes it a community centre. Sorry you can't see that.

  4. #124
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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Look dude, I don't care about your little word differentiations and equivocating instance A to instance B. The argument has descended into meaningless drivel, just like its premise. The people building the community centre are not terrorists, no matter how much propaganda gets spun by the pundits to paint them as such. People just don't like Islam because the only thing they know about it is that some crazy people reciting the Koran crashed themselves into the World Trade Centre almost 10 years ago. That's the extent of it.

    I don't really care what ignorant arguments people make. I support the community centre because I support freedom. If your ideas differ then oh well. Have fun expressing them. I am now going to stop listening.
    How can you support total freedom; you're Canadian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    He said "freedom," not "total freedom."

    Probably because there is no such thing in any society on the face of the Earth as "total freedom."
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    He said "freedom," not "total freedom."

    Probably because there is no such thing in any society on the face of the Earth as "total freedom."
    Only in your little Libbo world. To most of us, there's a difference between, "total freedom", and, "lawlessness".
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #127
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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    You are entitled to your opinion of the man. I personally don't know enough about him to say, but based on his actions I don't really have a problem with him.
    WTF does he have to do build a god damn shrine to the hijackers themselves?

    That seems like a really nitpicky reason to not want the community centre built.
    A) It's not a community center it's a Mosque.

    B) How is being opposed to an Imam who is overtly pro-theocracy and anti-secularism being "nit picky"?


    The general public will be able to go there to partake in the various activities offered in the centre, including sports and learning workshops. It will also have open spaces for rent for various cultural activities. That makes it a community centre. Sorry you can't see that.
    They will be allowed there so that they may receive Dawa, it is a Mosque the same way the Evangelical Mega-Churches which invite non-Born Again Christians and non-Christians to attend and use the numerous facilities so that they can proselytize to them, are still Churches. If it was a community center it would be offering religious services to all members of the community, the prayer area would be non-denominational or they wouldn't be offering religious services at all. And if you supported freedom then you wouldn't be supporting a Mosque being built at ground zero which is going to be run by an overt Islamist.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 08-23-10 at 12:52 AM.

  8. #128
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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    WTF does he have to do build a god damn shrine to the hijackers themselves?
    Really? He's building a shrine in honour of the attackers? Link?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    A) It's not a community center it's a Mosque.
    Doesn't fit the definition one, especially given the range of activities that will go on there. Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    B) How is being opposed to an Imam who is overtly pro-theocracy and anti-secularism being "nit picky"?
    What do his beliefs have to do with you? The U.S. will never endorse shariah law because it's against the federal constitution for the government to favour a religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    They will be allowed there so that they may receive Dawa, it is a Mosque the same way the Evangelical Mega-Churches which invite non-Born Again Christians and non-Christians to attend and use the numerous facilities so that they can proselytize to them, are still Churches.
    I see no evidence to support this claim. All religions want new followers, that's not news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    If it was a community center it would be offering religious services to all members of the community, the prayer area would be non-denominational or they wouldn't be offering religious services at all.
    That would not be part of my criteria for calling it a community centre. Just because a religious organization opens a building with community services, one of which endorses their faith, it does not make them a church or a mosque, nor does it make it any less of a community centre.. it just makes it more Muslim friendly. The fact that the public is included and can go there for various events shows that it's more inclusive, not exclusive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    And if you supported freedom then you wouldn't be supporting a Mosque being built at ground zero which is going to be run by an overt Islamist.
    It's not at ground zero, and no matter how many times you say it, it will never be true. And you are on doubtful ground as it is trying to prove it's a full on mosque.
    Last edited by Orion; 08-23-10 at 01:00 AM.

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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Only in your little Libbo world.
    I love how you call me a libbo just because I disagree with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    To most of us, there's a difference between, "total freedom", and, "lawlessness".
    In which case you'll have no difficulty whatsoever describing this "total freedom" to me and pointing out where on the planet it exists.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: The 911 Hard Hat Pledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Really? He's building a shrine in honour of the attackers? Link?
    [sarcasm]Yes, he's building a shrine to the hijackers.[/sarcasm]

    Doesn't fit the definition one, especially given the range of activities that will go on there. Sorry.
    Mosque - any place of Muslim worship. A jami-masjid or Friday Mosque is a major mosque where weekly prayer services are performed and a sermon or khutbah is given.

    What do his beliefs have to do with you? The U.S. will never endorse shariah law because it's against the federal constitution for the government to favour a religion.
    The National Socialist Party will very likely not be able to obtain political power in this country either, does that mean we should not condemn them?

    I see no evidence to support this claim. All religions want new followers, that's not news.
    I know it's not news, of course this place will be offering Dawa to the non-Muslim people who use the facilities, the same as anyother Mosque.

    That would not be part of my criteria for calling it a community centre. Just because a religious organization opens a building with community services, one of which endorses their faith, it does not make them a church or a mosque, nor does it make it any less of a community centre.. it just makes it more Muslim friendly. The fact that the public is included and can go there for various events shows that it's more inclusive, not exclusive.
    Yes yes a community center that only offers religious services to a certain religion. This is a community center like the Evangelical Mega-Churches are community centers.

    It's not at ground zero, and no matter how many times you say it, it will never be true. And you are on doubtful ground as it is trying to prove it's a full on mosque.
    You don't have a clue what you are talking about this building is part and parcel to ground zero it was actually struck by the landing gear of one of the planes that hit the building.

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