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Thread: Scarborough: 'Screw' GOP if they kick me out for defending mosque

  1. #31
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    Re: Scarborough: 'Screw' GOP if they kick me out for defending mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Morning Joe is an old school conservative that believes balls are balls and strikes are strikes regardless of who the batter is. It is no surprise that the new-day "conservatives" are kicking him to the curb. I can relate.
    I'm not kicking him to the curb myself. Personally I'm offended by the particular cleric and project since on it's face it seems to be a deliberate yet subtle slap in the face to our country and thus not a proper(probably protected though) act of religious expression, however that is my opinion. I think all opinions on this are valid but I definitely think this mosque is offensive, it's New York's business though.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Scarborough: 'Screw' GOP if they kick me out for defending mosque

    Dude. No.

    Any time/place/manner restriction must also be viewpoint neutral, so all religious activity would have to be prohibited, and that's never going to fly. As for the "time" aspect, it's about a legitimate reason for keeping someone from doing something at a particular time of day, like denying a parade permit on a residential street at 3:00 in the morning. As for manner, that contemplates keeping someone from doing something in a certain way -- such as not allowing faces to be covered at a demonstration -- and you're talking about a blanket prohibition.

    As if all that weren't enough, you have to identify a COMPELLING governmental interest in prohibiting the mosque, and hurt feelings isn't good enough -- and then the measure must be narrowly-tailored to serve that end and only that end.

    Sorry, but they're fully within their rights to this and the government can't do anything about it. Which is the way it should be.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Scarborough: 'Screw' GOP if they kick me out for defending mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post

    Any time/place/manner restriction must also be viewpoint neutral, so all religious activity would have to be prohibited, and that's never going to fly. As for the "time" aspect, it's about a legitimate reason for keeping someone from doing something at a particular time of day, like denying a parade permit on a residential street at 3:00 in the morning. As for manner, that contemplates keeping someone from doing something in a certain way -- such as not allowing faces to be covered at a demonstration -- and you're talking about a blanket prohibition.
    Actually, TPM restrictions apply to all first amendment restriction cases. For instance yelling fire in a crowded theater is always illegal because it poses a public danger. Disturbing the peace laws are always inforce because of the nuisance factor. It is never legal to incite a riot, and sedition was always illegal as long as the law was within a scope that was reasonable and had demonstrable need such as safety of the public at large from clear and present danger or imminent threat. Time refers to timing, not time itself, place refers to proximity, manner refers to intent of expression.

    As if all that weren't enough, you have to identify a COMPELLING governmental interest in prohibiting the mosque, and hurt feelings isn't good enough -- and then the measure must be narrowly-tailored to serve that end and only that end.
    You are correct, there is no guarantee against offense in the first amendment and nor should there be. The case could be made however that public safety is at risk due to the incindiary nature of the project in question. This admittedly is a tricky area.

    Sorry, but they're fully within their rights to this and the government can't do anything about it. Which is the way it should be.
    Well, they are technically within their rights however ill advised it may be. The point I was making was strictly from the position of those who would ban the buiding of the mosque due to public concerns. Again, a good plaintiff's attorney could stop the mosque or delay it indefinitely.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Scarborough: 'Screw' GOP if they kick me out for defending mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Anyone want to count the number of amendments to the constitution the republicans want to change so far this year?
    Try to keep up Don.... it isn't about whether they have a right to build a Mosque (they do), it's about whether it's right of them to build it where they want to build it. Most people think that is wrong.














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    Re: Scarborough: 'Screw' GOP if they kick me out for defending mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post

    Sorry, but they're fully within their rights to this and the government can't do anything about it. Which is the way it should be.
    I used this line in another context, but I think it fits here at least as well: rights are their most important when they are the hardest to grant. Saying people have free speech is easy, till it's the Westboro church protesting at funerals. Saying people have freedom of religion is easy, till it's Muslim's wanting to build a mosque at ground zero. It's when limiting those rights seems most reasonable that we have to stop, step back and realize that it is never the right time to limit the rights of people in this country.
    Last edited by Redress; 08-17-10 at 06:05 PM.
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    Re: Scarborough: 'Screw' GOP if they kick me out for defending mosque

    The cynicism meter says hes full of ****.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

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    Re: Scarborough: 'Screw' GOP if they kick me out for defending mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Morning Joe is anywhere between 3-7 MSNBC liberals and one so-called "conservative". The guests are I'd say 3 to 1 liberals, and that's being kind. I watch the show every morning ... doesn't change Joe plays patty cake and is the token RINO.
    That doesn't surprise me. It is, after all MSNBC. The most left biased station on the networks. Joe is to Morning Joe what Colmes was to Hannity. Token liberal/conservative. I get it. No argument there.

    I'm just saying, having been once well known amongst my peers as a conservative myself, I understand how the new-day "conservatives" would get sideways with him. I have experienced this myself. Just sayin'.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
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    Re: Scarborough: 'Screw' GOP if they kick me out for defending mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Actually, TPM restrictions apply to all first amendment restriction cases. For instance yelling fire in a crowded theater is always illegal because it poses a public danger.
    Well, actually, no, it's not.

    Disturbing the peace laws are always inforce because of the nuisance factor. It is never legal to incite a riot, and sedition was always illegal as long as the law was within a scope that was reasonable and had demonstrable need such as safety of the public at large from clear and present danger or imminent threat.
    Doesn't have anything to do with TPM.

    Time refers to timing, not time itself
    Split hair.

    place refers to proximity
    Not always.


    manner refers to intent of expression.
    Never. Refers to restrictions on manner of expression, such as not allowing fireworks on a city street.


    Again, a good plaintiff's attorney could stop the mosque or delay it indefinitely.
    Hardly. Besides, who would be the "plaintiff"? Who could possibly have standing to bring the suit? Who is being harmed by what a religious organization does on its own property?

    With as much energy is behind opposition, don't you think that if this could be done, and any good attorney could do it, it would be happening?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Scarborough: 'Screw' GOP if they kick me out for defending mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I think you should explain specifically how they contradict me.
    I didn't mean to imply they did, however Scarborough and McKinnon seemed to imply they were at odds with the GOP leadership on this issue. Scarborough talked about the comments made by Newt Gingrich.

    "Nazis don't have the right to put up a sign next to the Holocaust Museum in Washington," Gingrich said on Fox News. "We would never accept the Japanese putting up a site next to Pearl Harbor. There is no reason for us to accept a mosque next to the World Trade Center," he said.

    Reflecting on Gingrich's comments, Scarborough didn't know where to begin. "To suggest that someone trying to build a -- a tolerant center for moderate Muslims in New York is the equivalent of killing six million Jews is stunning to me," he said.

    "It's stunning and it is so contrary to our country's principle and the Republican party," McKinnon agreed, then added, "I'm glad to see we're together on this and unfortunately I think we may get our membership revoked at the Pachyderm Club."

    "Screw 'em," interrupted Scarborough.

    "I agree," said McKinnon.


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    Re: Scarborough: 'Screw' GOP if they kick me out for defending mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I used this line in another context, but I think it fits here at least as well: rights are there most important when they are the hardest to grant. Saying people have free speech is easy, till it's the Westboro church protesting at funerals. Saying people have freedom of religion is easy, till it's Muslim's wanting to build a mosque at ground zero. It's when limiting those rights seems most reasonable that we have to stop, step back and realize that it is never the right time to limit the rights of people in this country.
    Actually, building a mosque is a cakewalk. Saying people have freedom of religion is easy until they get all weird and build a self-sufficient, closed-off compound somewhere in Texas.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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