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Thread: Russia to start Iran's 1st nuclear plant next week

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    Re: Russia to start Iran's 1st nuclear plant next week

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Anyone with ˝ a brain can build a crude gun type device in a 2 story house..... if they have access to WGU or PU, and say 40 or 50 people that want to meet their maker right quick.
    Pretty much. Which is why everyone should be behind Obama's campaign to reduce proliferation. Its not hard to build the weapon. With that in mind, we need to control the fuel.

    I still have never heard of a successful implosion device that would work with 20%.
    Because it's not cost effective. Or time effective. Or really any good reason to do it that way. I suspect the number of required reflectors and shaped charges needed would be sufficent to build several weapons with WGP. From that angle, it makes no sense to build an implosion with 20% enriched.

    as far as I know it isn't even theoretically possible to compress the pit enough to allow the rapid disassembly of the device to become self sustaining.
    Because? With sufficent quanities of 20% (and I'm meaning LOTS) it shouldn't be impossible to compress it to the point where self sustaining reactions occur. I don't think it would work with the normal amount of material used in enriched. But with sufficent amounts 20% and lots of shaped charges and reflectors, it should theoretically work. But at that point, deployment as a weapon is virtually out of the question. When your weapon is as big as a house, it's not really useful. But that does not make it impossible.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Russia to start Iran's 1st nuclear plant next week

    How about who gives a ****? What is Iran going to do seriously? Wage war against a bunch of other people that got nothing but sand and bull**** around them?

    We're Americans, and if there is ever a real threat to our nation, we'll be on them like stink on **** in less than 24 hours time so let them build their little science fair.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Russia to start Iran's 1st nuclear plant next week

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Tehran alone has 17 million people. The nuclear energy will go a long way.
    So will the plutonium, which is what the reactor is for.

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    Re: Russia to start Iran's 1st nuclear plant next week

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I'm going to have to agree with Vader here. Unlike Saddam and his Iraq, there isn't the pressure to play the "I have them-No I don't" game. Furthermore, Iran is pulling some of the same moves that Israel did when it tried to hide its program. And there's no reason to spend huge sums of money on enrichment when they can get it relatively cheap and reliably from Russia unless they are trying to enrich to weapons grade. I don't disaree that Iran wants civilian power, but it also wants defensive nukes.
    "Defensive" nukes?

    You mean weapons of mass destruction. Nuclear bombs. Last time I checked, no one releases 10^15 joules in microseconds for defense. They do it to kill huge numbers of people.

    Since the only reason Iran feels threatened by anyone is their continued support of international terrorism, the best defense Iran could have is the assassination of their maniac leaders and the election of reasonable people that won't export terrorism.

    Iran getting nuclear weapons is not a defensive move. Let us not pretend that just because sane nations in the past have used nuclear weapons in the final extremity only that Iran will become sane when it possesses nuclear weapons. There's no evidence of sanity in that regime.

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    Re: Russia to start Iran's 1st nuclear plant next week

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    "Defensive" nukes?

    You mean weapons of mass destruction. Nuclear bombs. Last time I checked, no one releases 10^15 joules in microseconds for defense. They do it to kill huge numbers of people.

    Since the only reason Iran feels threatened by anyone is their continued support of international terrorism, the best defense Iran could have is the assassination of their maniac leaders and the election of reasonable people that won't export terrorism.

    Iran getting nuclear weapons is not a defensive move. Let us not pretend that just because sane nations in the past have used nuclear weapons in the final extremity only that Iran will become sane when it possesses nuclear weapons. There's no evidence of sanity in that regime.
    The only nation to my knowledge to actually use nuclear weapons is United States and even then, one could debate it wasn't necassary.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Russia to start Iran's 1st nuclear plant next week

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    That's technically not true. An implosion device utilizing uranium can make a nuke out of 20% enriched. It just would require a larger then normal number of reflectors and a larger then normal explosive amount of shaped charges to compress the uranium into a critical mass. Sure it's bloody hard to make it, but North Korea managed to make implosion devices with plutonium and they have been in contact with Iran.
    Well, let's clarify some stuff.

    One "enriches" uranium to concentrate the U235. The complicated enrichment process is required because there's no chemical difference between the fairly non-reactive U238 and it's more reactive lighter isotope.

    A 20% enriched weapon could never be more than a "dirty nuke", intended more to create a radiological horror in Tel Aviv than to flatten the city. Especially not if it's delivered by air.

    Plutonium is chemically different from uranium, and it will be separated from the nuclear waste when the operating reactors Russia is providing are refueled.

    Plutonium has a much greater neutron absorption cross section than U235, which means a small critical mass is needed to make a boom. Because of the greater reactivity of Pu239, an implosion shock wave is necessary to compress the subcritical core before predetonation causes a fizzle. Given that this computer I bought over the counter has more than enough computing power to solve the hydrodynamic equations of the implosion, it's no wonder than a backwoods nation like North Korea would opt for the implosion of Pu239 instead of the massive industrial investment making U235 bombs entails.

    From Wiki: Weapons-grade plutonium is defined as containing no more than 7% Pu-240; this is achieved by only exposing U-238 to neutron sources for short periods of time to minimize the Pu-240 produced. Pu-240 exposed to alpha particles will incite a nuclear fission.[citation needed]

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    Re: Russia to start Iran's 1st nuclear plant next week

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    The only nation to my knowledge to actually use nuclear weapons is United States and even then, one could debate it wasn't necassary.
    One could only debate it wasn't necessary if one deliberately choose to lose the debate.

    End of Debate: The life of ONE American GI that was saved by not having to invade Japan was worth the hundred thousand or so lives of the enemy lost when we FIREBOMBED Kyoto.

    Oh, wait, you were talking about nukes. When you define how being dead from burning up in a nuclear blast is deader than dying in a fire started by Curtis LeMay's incendiary raids is deader then jumping from the World Trade Center to avoid the agony of being burned up by fires started by terrorist vandals, let me know.

    Like I said, you can't win that argument, you'd only waste forum space if you tried. So I've already ended the argument for you and you won't get any further discussion on that topic from me.

    Since the United States is morally superior to Iran, I'm also not especially interested in any lame moral equivalency arguments. Just in case you haven't noticed, the United States hasn't ordered any adultresses stoned to death in the last ummm... forever.

    You're defending the acquisition of "Fry Whole Cities Quickly" technology by a nation that is currently fending off international protest at it's decision to cast stones boldly at defenseless women. That argument will hold water as good as a gill net.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 08-18-10 at 05:21 AM.

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    Re: Russia to start Iran's 1st nuclear plant next week

    Scarecrow, you continue to show me how much of a tool you are. What I was referring to was the fact that by that point the United States was totally hammering the Japanese, had control of most the Pacific islands and Japan even was preparing to write the terms of surrender. Also, I wouldn't debate it because I am unsure exactly what would have happened either way. The fact that the people piloting the planes didn't even know what they were dropping could cause that much destruction, and having to live with that probably didn't cross your mind either.

    Scarecrow, what is your opinion on the Irani people? Do you believe they are evil people that want to come to your house rape your sister, and then stone you to death?
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Russia to start Iran's 1st nuclear plant next week

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    How about who gives a ****? What is Iran going to do seriously? Wage war against a bunch of other people that got nothing but sand and bull**** around them?

    We're Americans, and if there is ever a real threat to our nation, we'll be on them like stink on **** in less than 24 hours time so let them build their little science fair.
    Your argument assumes the leadership of Iran is sane.

    The leadership of Iraq are religous fanatics.

    Also, the best time to for the helicopter to dump retardant on a forest fire is when the camper that started the fire is still standing next to it. The best time to deal with Iran's nuclear weapons program was eight years ago, was seven years ago,was last year, was yesterday, is NOW. Waiting until they have the actual devices means we risk a nuclear war when we try to take them away.

    Some of us aren't stupid enough to trust the financial backers of Hezbollah with nuclear weapons.

    Funny, isn't it, how the Left in the US wets their pants at the thought that some Americans might elect to use their constitutional freedom to own a gun, and do everything they can, including lying and bullying, to prevent people from being able to excercise that freedom, but those same Lefties defend Iran's "right" to own weapons that can murder millions in a flash.

    What's wrong with those people?

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    Re: Russia to start Iran's 1st nuclear plant next week

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    Scarecrow, you continue to show me how much of a tool you are.
    No.

    Your claim that I've posted nude photos of myself on-line are false.

    I would never do that. It would take too much bandwidth.

    What I was referring to was the fact that by that point the United States was totally hammering the Japanese, had control of most the Pacific islands and Japan even was preparing to write the terms of surrender. Also, I wouldn't debate it because I am unsure exactly what would have happened either way. The fact that the people piloting the planes didn't even know what they were dropping could cause that much destruction, and having to live with that probably didn't cross your mind either.
    Did you see the part where I said you already lost the argument?

    Did you see the part where I said I won't be contributing to any discussion on the matter you already lost?

    I meant it.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 08-18-10 at 05:31 AM.

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