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GOP plan to extend tax cuts for rich adds $36 billion

Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Film, the tax cuts in 2001 were exactly like the Obama tax cuts and did the same thing, nothiing, they were rebates. In 2003 they were rate cuts. Do you understand the difference? Again, I ask you why are you so anti keeping more of what you earn. It seems to me that maybe you don't work, don't pay taxes thus have no point of reference?

It seems to me that you're nothing but a partisan hack who has little fantasies in his head as to who people are.

We're done debating this until you stop with your little stereotypes.

I'm probably not as wealthy as you are, but I get by just fine thank you. I just get pissed off about falsehoods people tell about taxes. Everyone where I live talks about how low their taxes are compared to other states and how we have no municipal tax. Great! I'm all for low taxes. We also are one of the 10 poorest states in the nation with an ever-growing underclass and an unemployment rate above national average and we can't get sidewalks built in our neighborhood or get our stoplights timed properly to lower congestion because it's not in the budget.

There is such a thing as common sense government. And to get it, you have to pay for it.

Please. I'm asking you to either stop responding to me and let me debate with others who don't succumb to stereotypes and fantasies about those with whom they disagree or simply stop the asinine assumptions about who I am and what I do. If you want to know what I do - I throw an annual event with an economic impact in excess of $1 million; the equivalent of creating 30 jobs a year based on local average per capita income. That's whole lot more than a lot of people I know around here who are bitching and whining (and I'm talking about people who still have their jobs, I don't call those who actually lost their jobs whiners). Your treatment of your opponent reflects poorly upon you and it's why people like me don't like to associate with people like you. Even if I'm as rich as you claim to be one day, I won't behave the way you do toward people who work hard and simply want to be paid for their work.

Again, I'm not against tax cuts - but just like spending by government, they can be irresponsible. The 2001 and 2003 cuts (less so, honestly the 2001 cuts) were irresponsible in the face of two wars and are a large part of the cause the current deficit.

That's all I'm trying to f'ing say. They're not always the right thing to do just so people get a little more. They don't fix everything and the 2003 cuts are a PRIME example of when they're the exact wrong thing to do.

I've given you some examples of how I would cut taxes, so I'm obviously not against them. I'm just for using them in a more skillful manner to improve the overall economic picture of the nation and make sure that everyone sees growth and get back to the stated post-WW2 goal of Full Employment that seems to have been spurned recently.

Your continued delusions that I don't work and want to give all my money to the government add nothing to the debate.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

So you're saying he's just as much of a liar as Reagan or Bush on that issue?



A short-term stimulus can't alter the economic landscape significantly? I feel like I've been hearing the exact opposite for the past year+.

I'm not sure where in your little view of the world that you think I think Obama is some sort of God. I think the stimulus was mis-spent and I have several other issues with the man.

Yes, I think Obama and Bush were wrong. There's nothing wrong with short-term stimulus, it can help out in a downturn. But it doesn't have long-term impact. It never has and it never will. That's why you'll find studies that show the top marginal tax rate has nothing to do with GDP growth or income rates. It's why our economy boomed when there was top marginal tax rate of 91%, and didn't do so well under Bush's 35% top marginal rate.

A slight increase on the top marginal rate - reverting to the Clinton rate up top - WITH incentives for businesses to hire - wouldn't significantly alter the economic universe and would be part of cutting the deficit, along with matching spending cuts.

Again, this is what Conservatives in Britain are doing.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Again, I'm not against tax cuts - but just like spending by government, they can be irresponsible

This says it all, how can allowing you to keep more of what you earn be irresponsible under any terms? You want so badly to believe that the govt. won't screw you but don't see how you are being used to implement a socialist economic policy and redistribute wealth. For some reason you never question how your govt. spends our money and that is what frustrates me the most. Everything you post ignores govt. revenue growing after tax cuts. There are 16 million unemployed Americans, how do you propose to get them back to work and paying taxes? Think taking more of your income is going to do it? think about it.

Your passion is incredible and beyond comprehension. I don't understand how people can bo so brainwashed that they have to be convinced as to the value of keeping your own money. That is the attitude that will keep you dependent a long, long time. You and far too many people are so naive when it comes to the govt. spending yet you buy what you are told. I showed you govt. revenue AFTER the 2003 tax increase and you still say they were the wrong thing to do, why? I just don't get it

Do you realize that 53% of the people in this country pay all the income taxes meaning that 47% don't pay any income taxes but do pay SS taxes? Suppose you want to still give them a tax cut and allow them to take their SS on cue?

Sorry about saying you don't work, I don't know that but it does seem to me that a lot of people that don't pay any taxes have no problem raising the taxes on others. the way to improve our economic conditions and get 16 million Americans back to work is to grow your way out of this and do it with tax cuts and spending cuts. 16 million new taxpayers would be great for govt. revenue wouldn't it?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Because tax increases do not provide increases in revenue and will do nothing to employ 16 million unemployed Americans


It would do a lot for consumer confidence to see some of the debt being retired. Consumer confidence= consumer spending in this economy imo.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

It would do a lot for consumer confidence to see some of the debt being retired. Consumer confidence= consumer spending in this economy imo.

16 million Americans don't have a lot of money to spend right now so how is their consumer confidence? Still waiting for your answer to put them back to work? think that you having less take home pay will do it?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

I'm not sure where in your little view of the world that you think I think Obama is some sort of God.

Can you link me to where I said anything even resembling this?


I think the stimulus was mis-spent and I have several other issues with the man.
Yes, I think Obama and Bush were wrong. There's nothing wrong with short-term stimulus, it can help out in a downturn. But it doesn't have long-term impact. It never has and it never will. That's why you'll find studies that show the top marginal tax rate has nothing to do with GDP growth or income rates. It's why our economy boomed when there was top marginal tax rate of 91%, and didn't do so well under Bush's 35% top marginal rate.

When the top marginal rate was 91%, it affected a minuscule percentage of the people that the top rate of 35% affected, so it's not an effective comparison.

A slight increase on the top marginal rate - reverting to the Clinton rate up top - WITH incentives for businesses to hire - wouldn't significantly alter the economic universe and would be part of cutting the deficit, along with matching spending cuts.

And that's certainly one argument, but just saying it doesn't prove it.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Conservative;
16 million Americans don't have a lot of money to spend right now so how is their consumer confidence?
from post#179

note the = sign.

<It would do a lot for consumer confidence to see some of the debt being retired. Consumer confidence= consumer spending in this economy imo.>



Still waiting for your answer to put them back to work? think that you having less take home pay will do it?

from post #172

< Originally Posted by donc


Then why not dedicate… say… half of the so-called tax increase to reducing the debt and the other half to stimulus that makes our “economic engine go”?>
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

from post#179

note the = sign.

<It would do a lot for consumer confidence to see some of the debt being retired. Consumer confidence= consumer spending in this economy imo.>





from post #172

< Originally Posted by donc


Then why not dedicate… say… half of the so-called tax increase to reducing the debt and the other half to stimulus that makes our “economic engine go”?>

As usual you ignored my post, how do unemployed people improve their confidence in the economy and where does their money come from to grow the economy? I doubt seriously that retiring debt means a lot to the unemployed as their debt isn't the one retired.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Utah Bill, heard of the Son of Boss tax scheme? A completely artificial way to generate insanely large fake losses to completely eliminate all taxable income? It ain't the poor and middle class who are using them.
Never heard of it, but will look it up.....
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Ok, thanks, I just get so confused, just doesn't seem right that he would pay less in taxes if he didn't have the deductions for charitable giving but I bow to your superior wisdom

A lot of the pyramid scheme crooks donated heavily to charities.....and Buffet is just now deciding to give half of his wealth to charities...
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Oh, that's adorable.

Someone's trying to convince us that the *deficit* is cause by a *lack of taxes*
When really - all educated people know - that the deficit is caused by excessive government spending.

But I guess that's just a technical - a minute detail - when it comes to the world of political partisan hackery. Truly, I'm tired of people trying to drag me into the Democrat party with this kind of bull****.

agree, the govt shouldn't spend more than it takes in....if the GOP wants to extend the Bush tax cuts, it should help devise a budget that allows income to match outgo....
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

You mean like right now when Obama with a Democrat Congress has added 3 trillion to the debt. I am sure there is no borrowing and spending now, right?
So the GOP and DEM parties are using each other's worst ideas, right?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

A lot of the pyramid scheme crooks donated heavily to charities.....and Buffet is just now deciding to give half of his wealth to charities...

I agree but I am still waiting for OC to provide me with information as to what affect Buffet NOT contributing to charity would have on his tax rate. Bet it wouldn't be a lower rate than his employees but OC keeps telling me how smart OC is, I wait for a response.

Seems that the one thing many people overlook is how much rich contribute to charity when they have more spendable income. Sounds like many would like them to give less to charity, pay higher taxes, and let the govt. distribute the money to whoever they deem important.

I miss OC and anxiously await OC telling me where I am wrong.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

So the GOP and DEM parties are using each other's worst ideas, right?

Actually the Party of "no" didn't vote for the stimulus, didn't vote for Obamacare, didn't vote for the GM/Chrysler buyout so it doesn't look like they are using the Democrats poor ideas. The Republicans in Congress today are not responsible for the three trillion added to the debt however it wouldn't bother me a bit to have all the RINO's voted out of office and get back to actual conservative principles.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Conservative

As usual you ignored my post, how do unemployed people improve their confidence in the economy and where does their money come from to grow the economy?

Aha, I get it now, the ole tried and true obtuse defenses. I guess in my old age I must have forgotten that some people still use that one. I should have known better, seeing as how the republicans have been using it for the last…well, at least, since the tall spooky black man got elected President.

Here is your question.

Conservative asks.

how do unemployed people improve their confidence in the economy and where does their money come from to grow the economy?

Answer. Note the period after the word retired, then the equal sign, prior to consumer.

It would do a lot for consumer confidence to see some of the debt being retired. Consumer confidence=consumer spending in this economy imo.


If that is too cryptic for you let me know. :2wave:
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Conservative



Aha, I get it now, the ole tried and true obtuse defenses. I guess in my old age I must have forgotten that some people still use that one. I should have known better, seeing as how the republicans have been using it for the last…well, at least, since the tall spooky black man got elected President.

Here is your question.



Answer. Note the period after the word retired, then the equal sign, prior to consumer.

It would do a lot for consumer confidence to see some of the debt being retired. Consumer confidence=consumer spending in this economy imo.


If that is too cryptic for you let me know. :2wave:

Note my focus on the consumer which is the job creating engine for our economy. In addition note that tax increases don't guarantee more income for the govt. because tax increase affect buying power and affect corporate taxes. Tax increases change human behavior a factor that too many ignore.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Actually the Party of "no" didn't vote for the stimulus, didn't vote for Obamacare, didn't vote for the GM/Chrysler buyout so it doesn't look like they are using the Democrats poor ideas. The Republicans in Congress today are not responsible for the three trillion added to the debt however it wouldn't bother me a bit to have all the RINO's voted out of office and get back to actual conservative principles.
I wonder how the party would have voted had President McCain made the same proposals?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

I wonder how the party would have voted had President McCain made the same proposals?

I doubt that McCain would have made the same proposals as his resume shows more fiscal responsibility than Obama. Obama is doing exactly what his resume said he would do. I am not surprised.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Actually the Party of "no" didn't vote for the stimulus, didn't vote for Obamacare, didn't vote for the GM/Chrysler buyout so it doesn't look like they are using the Democrats poor ideas. The Republicans in Congress today are not responsible for the three trillion added to the debt however it wouldn't bother me a bit to have all the RINO's voted out of office and get back to actual conservative principles.

But when Republicans controlled everything, here's what happened to the debt:

09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2009

Congressional Dems can claim part of the increase from 2006 to 2007, however, the budget was passed by the previous Congress, so only additional expenditures can be blamed on them.

I agree with you that a lot of the current Republicans should be voted out - and a good portion of the Democrats, too. But a LOT of the Republicans, like Boehner, Cantor, and Bachmann were all there in the years between 2000 and 2006 when Republicans spent, spent, spent and took no responsibility for it.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

But when Republicans controlled everything, here's what happened to the debt:

09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2009

Congressional Dems can claim part of the increase from 2006 to 2007, however, the budget was passed by the previous Congress, so only additional expenditures can be blamed on them.

I agree with you that a lot of the current Republicans should be voted out - and a good portion of the Democrats, too. But a LOT of the Republicans, like Boehner, Cantor, and Bachmann were all there in the years between 2000 and 2006 when Republicans spent, spent, spent and took no responsibility for it.

Better check your facts as Republicans didn't control Congress in 2007, didn't control the house in 2006, and had a split Congress in 2001. Now as for your numbers in two years 2009-10 Obama has added 3 trillion to the debt from trillion dollar deficits and his projected budgets have trillion dollar deficits for the next 5 years. Please post for me any trillion dollar deficit of Bush? Your outrage over Bush spending ignores the current Obama spending, why is that?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Domestic spending should be the first thing on our govt's mind. Our infrastructure needs a lot of work, so does the education system, and our standing in the world of economics. Wars should be declared only by congress, must be a 2/3 vote, and those voting for it have to send a close family member to the front lines, or go themselves....
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Domestic spending should be the first thing on our govt's mind. Our infrastructure needs a lot of work, so does the education system, and our standing in the world of economics. Wars should be declared only by congress, must be a 2/3 vote, and those voting for it have to send a close family member to the front lines, or go themselves....

Here are the line items of the budget. Most is geared to domestic spending and most is wasted on social engineering as well as the waste, fraud, and abuse of our bureaucrats. Probably what bothers me the most is very few seem to have any civics, economics, or history education. We currently have a 3.8 trillion dollar budget because of all the social engineering and trying to keep people from failing. There doesn't seem to be any consequences for failure today as someone always bails the failure out. That never is what our Founders built. Their goal was a small central govt. with the power in the states. I have a problem understanding how a bureaucrat in D.C. can fund a social program in Boise, Idaho. The answer is they can't, that is a local issue.

Defense
International Affairs
Gen. Science, Space
Energy
Natural resources/env
Agriculture
Commerce
Transportation
Community Dev
Education/Train/Social
Health
Medicare
Income Security
Social Security
Veterans Benefits
Justice
General Govt.
Net Interest
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Here are the line items of the budget. Most is geared to domestic spending and most is wasted on social engineering as well as the waste, fraud, and abuse of our bureaucrats. Probably what bothers me the most is very few seem to have any civics, economics, or history education. We currently have a 3.8 trillion dollar budget because of all the social engineering and trying to keep people from failing. There doesn't seem to be any consequences for failure today as someone always bails the failure out. That never is what our Founders built. Their goal was a small central govt. with the power in the states. I have a problem understanding how a bureaucrat in D.C. can fund a social program in Boise, Idaho. The answer is they can't, that is a local issue.

Defense
International Affairs
Gen. Science, Space
Energy
Natural resources/env
Agriculture
Commerce
Transportation
Community Dev
Education/Train/Social
Health
Medicare
Income Security
Social Security
Veterans Benefits
Justice
General Govt.
Net Interest

I have seen first hand the waste in the Navy, and in our public schools. As soon as the govt needs to buy something, the vultures line up to overcharge for whatever it is that is needed.
My son and I put together a portable sound system with $3500 donated dollars at my wife's school a few years back. The school was about to buy a crappy system using cheap stereo stuff. The suppliers claim to fame was that he would teach them how to use it, and give a 3 year warranty. Well, when you charge $3500 for $1500 worth of stuff (Circuit City prices), you can afford to give a 3 year warranty. We used American made commercial grade quality mixer, amp, rack, microphones, speakers, cables, and rack, and had trouble spending all of the money. We told Guitar Center it was for a school, and they offered a decent discount. Son and I put the system together ourselves, and trained a few 8th grade students on how to use it. They understand that kind of stuff better than their teachers....
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

I have seen first hand the waste in the Navy, and in our public schools. As soon as the govt needs to buy something, the vultures line up to overcharge for whatever it is that is needed.
My son and I put together a portable sound system with $3500 donated dollars at my wife's school a few years back. The school was about to buy a crappy system using cheap stereo stuff. The suppliers claim to fame was that he would teach them how to use it, and give a 3 year warranty. Well, when you charge $3500 for $1500 worth of stuff (Circuit City prices), you can afford to give a 3 year warranty. We used American made commercial grade quality mixer, amp, rack, microphones, speakers, cables, and rack, and had trouble spending all of the money. We told Guitar Center it was for a school, and they offered a decent discount. Son and I put the system together ourselves, and trained a few 8th grade students on how to use it. They understand that kind of stuff better than their teachers....

Exactly, that problem resonates throughout the govt. and yet there are those here that still have no problem raising taxes to pay for that waste, fraud, and abuse. It happens with both parties and it has to stop. One of the answers as I have pointed out is tax cuts allowing taxpayers to keep more of what they earn thus making them less dependent on the govt.

If the items I listed were eliminated or reduced any idea what the tax revenue that would be required to handle the true purpose of the govt? I cannot imagine the economic boom and job creation that would generate.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

The richest 1% earn 22.83% of all income and pay 40.42% of all taxes.

Not sure what you're getting at re: tax shelters and how you believe that affects those numbers.

Wow, that is interesting. The top .1% earns 11.93% of the nation's income and pays 20.19% of taxes. Man, I'm happy we have a progressive tax system. The richest people in the country own 12% of the income but only pay 20% of the taxes? That is nuts!
 
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