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Thread: GOP plan to extend tax cuts for rich adds $36 billion

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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    you still havent answered the question...with a budget deficit, why are we talking about giving a break to the richest in the country....why? you keep trying to spin everything to a 'class warfare' arguement, when it isnt...it is a common sense question, something you claim to have alot of ....so where is the sense in extending tax breaks to those whom it wont make alot of difference to? if you can't see the stupidity in doing this, don't waste your time responding.
    Because you haven't proven that more money first will go to the govt. and second that it will be used to lower the deficit. You continue to believe what this Administration tells you but don't have anything to back up that belief.

    Yes, I do have common sense and know that human behavior is ignored when it comes to politicians and liberals. The fact that you ignore what you do with more take home pay is quite telling plus the fact that you seem to care more about how much revenue the govt. gets instead of how much income you get to keep.

    You don't know that the tax cuts to the so called rich aren't needed because you don't seem to have a clue as to who those tax cuts affect. Many are small businesses that employ people and when their cost of doing business increases the first to go are employees.
    if you can't see the stupidity in doing this, don't waste your time responding.

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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    that is pretty funny which is what all do when they cannot intellectually discuss the topic or divert from the thread topic. The topic of this thread is GOP plans to extend tax cuts for the rich and my question to you is how increasing taxes on the rich will reduce the Federal Deficit 36 billion dollars?
    The topic has not been discussed for dozens of pages. You made a silly comment about "supply side economics" which ended up biting you in the ass. In a last attempt to divert my commentary, you now want to discuss the topic from 60+ pages ago.

    It does seem that the book smart people on this thread have difficulty with logic, common sense, and actual facts.
    Anyone who disagrees with you has difficulty with log, common sense, and actual facts. Remember, there is difference between normative and positive economics. It is a fallacy of composition to believe you can use normative rants to construct a positive statement.

    Before claiming anyone is losing the argument you would have to provide proof of that.
    The proof is in your response. Instead of addressing my statements, you completely ignore them and then begin labeling me. Liberal, book smart-street stupid, etc.... AKA the grumblings of defeat.

    Looks to me like the personal attacks and baiting are coming from you.
    I only replied to your statement. Given the content of your posts (unable to even recognize demand vs supply deficiencies), one can only question. Maybe if you could control yourself from posting anecdotes in a discussion about economic policy, i would not have the ammunition to make such a statement. To put it bluntly, discuss the topic, not yourself and your perception of others.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  3. #643
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Because you haven't proven that more money first will go to the govt. and second that it will be used to lower the deficit. You continue to believe what this Administration tells you but don't have anything to back up that belief.

    Yes, I do have common sense and know that human behavior is ignored when it comes to politicians and liberals. The fact that you ignore what you do with more take home pay is quite telling plus the fact that you seem to care more about how much revenue the govt. gets instead of how much income you get to keep.

    You don't know that the tax cuts to the so called rich aren't needed because you don't seem to have a clue as to who those tax cuts affect. Many are small businesses that employ people and when their cost of doing business increases the first to go are employees.
    are you fiscally conservative? then giving tax breaks that are not needed, should not make alot of sense to you, when you are running a deficit.

  4. #644
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The topic has not been discussed for dozens of pages. You made a silly comment about "supply side economics" which ended up biting you in the ass. In a last attempt to divert my commentary, you now want to discuss the topic from 60+ pages ago.



    Anyone who disagrees with you has difficulty with log, common sense, and actual facts. Remember, there is difference between normative and positive economics. It is a fallacy of composition to believe you can use normative rants to construct a positive statement.



    The proof is in your response. Instead of addressing my statements, you completely ignore them and then begin labeling me. Liberal, book smart-street stupid, etc.... AKA the grumblings of defeat.



    I only replied to your statement. Given the content of your posts (unable to even recognize demand vs supply deficiencies), one can only question. Maybe if you could control yourself from posting anecdotes in a discussion about economic policy, i would not have the ammunition to make such a statement. To put it bluntly, discuss the topic, not yourself and your perception of others.
    Nothing in that post addresses the topic of this thread and is directly focused on attacking me. Post the definition of a personal attack again. Every one of your statements has been addressed and your entire argument ignores human behavior and the affects of tax cuts on that behavior.

    We have a an economy based upon free enterprise, capitalism and individual wealth creation which apparently is one that you don't understand or haven't learned in your textbooks. There is a lot to be gained by reading books however it really is a shame that people like you ignore real people and their personal behavior in making your arguments.

    Tell me how letting the tax cuts expire on the rich will affect their behavior especially since many of those so called rich are small business owners? Tell me again what people do when they get more take home pay including the rich? See if you can find that in your textbooks? What guarantee do you have that letting the tax cuts expire for the "rich" will generate 36 billion more dollars to the Treasury and more importantly if it does happen that it will be used to pay down the deficits?

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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why do you want to penalize people simply because they make more than you?
    Because the country needs money, and the rich can afford to pay it, not for philosophical, political, or idealistic reasons...

    ricksfolly

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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Because the country needs money, and the rich can afford to pay it, not for philosophical, political, or idealistic reasons...

    ricksfolly
    LOL, the country needs the money? Needs the money to do what? Where is the proof that the expiration of the tax cuts on the rich will generate another 36 billion to the govt?

    Why is it liberals always believe what they are told by another liberal even though the facts refute that rhetoric? What do you do when you get to keep more of your own money?

    We have an Administration that hasn't told the truth or been accurate on any economic issue yet on this one they are right? Pardon me for being skeptical and using history as a guide. Even if that amount of revenue is collected by the govt. history shows it will be spent vs. reducing the deficit and paying down the debt.

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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Nothing in that post addresses the topic of this thread and is directly focused on attacking me. Post the definition of a personal attack again. Every one of your statements has been addressed and your entire argument ignores human behavior and the affects of tax cuts on that behavior.

    We have a an economy based upon free enterprise, capitalism and individual wealth creation which apparently is one that you don't understand or haven't learned in your textbooks. There is a lot to be gained by reading books however it really is a shame that people like you ignore real people and their personal behavior in making your arguments.

    Tell me how letting the tax cuts expire on the rich will affect their behavior especially since many of those so called rich are small business owners? Tell me again what people do when they get more take home pay including the rich? See if you can find that in your textbooks? What guarantee do you have that letting the tax cuts expire for the "rich" will generate 36 billion more dollars to the Treasury and more importantly if it does happen that it will be used to pay down the deficits?
    Perhaps it would be better for Republicans to argue the other side. With all of the debt and deficits we have how can we afford to keep ANY of the Bush tax cuts. With a 3.8 trillion budget that this congress passed how can the country afford what is said to amount to the $2.1 trillion tax cut for people under $250K. How about some shared sacrifice. You can't just take from the top earners and give money we don't have to others.

    It would also be good to talk about what the total tax rate is for "the wealthy". Remember that states have been taking the same tact. So top earners can easily be above 50%, excluding property taxes, sales taxes etc. Also the health care bill has a surcharge on certain income for top earners of 3.8%.

    Lastly, if you live in CT, NY, NJ, Calif $250K is by no means wealthy. It is comfortable, but housing prices, property taxes which are often more than $10K with houses that cost at $500K means you are certainly not "rich".

  8. #648
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Perhaps it would be better for Republicans to argue the other side. With all of the debt and deficits we have how can we afford to keep ANY of the Bush tax cuts. With a 3.8 trillion budget that this congress passed how can the country afford what is said to amount to the $2.1 trillion tax cut for people under $250K. How about some shared sacrifice. You can't just take from the top earners and give money we don't have to others.

    It would also be good to talk about what the total tax rate is for "the wealthy". Remember that states have been taking the same tact. So top earners can easily be above 50%, excluding property taxes, sales taxes etc. Also the health care bill has a surcharge on certain income for top earners of 3.8%.

    Lastly, if you live in CT, NY, NJ, Calif $250K is by no means wealthy. It is comfortable, but housing prices, property taxes which are often more than $10K with houses that cost at $500K means you are certainly not "rich".
    I don't think liberals really want to discuss the other side of the issue as they are having a tough time with this side. Another issue is the 47% that don't pay any Federal Income taxes and the amount they use of the Federal Treasury without any shared sacrifice at all. Interesting how the focus is on the 2% while ignoring this 47%.

    Then there is the tough question of how does anyone know that elimination of the tax cut for the 2% will generate another 36 billion dollars? Obama says so? LOL, well we know how accurate he has been with his economic projections.

    You make a good point though. Too bad it will be ignored by Obama supporters

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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    you still havent answered the question...with a budget deficit, why are we talking about giving a break to the richest in the country....why? you keep trying to spin everything to a 'class warfare' arguement, when it isnt...it is a common sense question, something you claim to have alot of ....so where is the sense in extending tax breaks to those whom it wont make alot of difference to? if you can't see the stupidity in doing this, don't waste your time responding.
    He believes with his heart that tax cuts raise revenue (another fallacy of composition). When people begin to ignore history in an attempt to satisfy ideology, their statements are not genuine (even though they believe them with their hearts).
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #650
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    He believes with his heart that tax cuts raise revenue (another fallacy of composition). When people begin to ignore history in an attempt to satisfy ideology, their statements are not genuine (even though they believe them with their hearts).
    Apparently the fact that tax revenues grew AFTER both the Reagan and Bush tax cuts isn't something you understand nor can you explain. How can tax rates be cut 10-10-5% over three years and Federal Income tax revenue grow?

    I am still waiting for you or anyone else to prove that the elimination of tax cuts for the "rich" will generate 36 billion dollars in more revenue to the Federal Govt? Since tax cuts in your world don't grow govt. revenue where is your proof that tax increases grow govt. revenue? Does it magically just appear to the govt?

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