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Thread: GOP plan to extend tax cuts for rich adds $36 billion

  1. #621
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Text books are not B&W b nuance and opposing POVs are a part of good ones.



    It is all well and good people keep more of their money but what happens when the cost of healthcare goes up by 2 dollars vs the 1 extra I get in tax breaks?
    There are a lot of reasons for healthcare costs to be high and nothing in the Obamacare plan will lower costs and increase access. In order to get a handle on healthcare costs a complete study has to be done to determine all aspects of that cost and that has never been done. Do that and then you can address costs and cut them.

    Ooops, off track again, healthcare has nothing to do with this thread.
    Last edited by Conservative; 09-05-10 at 12:32 AM.

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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    There are a lot of reasons for healthcare costs to be high and nothing in the Obamacare plan will lower costs and increase access. In order to get a handle on healthcare costs a complete study has to be done to determine all aspects of that cost and that has never been done. Do that and then you can address costs and cut them.

    Ooops, off track again, healthcare has nothing to do with this thread.
    I was responding to the talking points you bring up in every friggen thread despite the topic. And I see again you avoid the point.

  3. #623
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I was responding to the talking points you bring up in every friggen thread despite the topic. And I see again you avoid the point.
    I see you are back to baiting as you usually do. I knew there was a reason I ignored your posts. Won't make that mistake again. Sorry facts are not talking points, too bad you are incapable of doing your own research to verify what someone else is telling you.

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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what idiotic class envy psychobabble. the top 1% is around 350K cut off. ie lawyers, doctors, accountants, small business owners make up a large amount of the top 1%

    your posts ooze envy


    Why would I be envious? It will more than like end up costing me quite a bit of money; unlike others on this board I put the financial stability of my country on a higher plane. I was coming home thru Denver and heard this song,it Kinda hit home.

    Especially the part about the workingman paying the band while the rich man dances.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I see you are back to baiting as you usually do. I knew there was a reason I ignored your posts. Won't make that mistake again. Sorry facts are not talking points, too bad you are incapable of doing your own research to verify what someone else is telling you.
    So one more time, if people get to keep one more dollar in tax cuts yet healthcare costs go up by two dollars who is short one dollar?

  6. #626
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post


    Why would I be envious? It will more than like end up costing me quite a bit of money; unlike others on this board I put the financial stability of my country on a higher plane. I was coming home thru Denver and heard this song,it Kinda hit home.

    Especially the part about the workingman paying the band while the rich man dances.
    If you put the financial stability of this country in such high regards why do you support an Admnistration that is spending us into bankruptcy? If the Congress is going to spend all that money why not let the American people keep more of the source of that money so they need less of that so called Govt. help?

    All the rhetoric about how much the rich pay in taxes when the actual amount of the increase is a drop in the bucket of the deficits being created and ignores the fact that 47% of the people don't pay any Federal Income taxes. Wonder what the real agenda is here?

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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That is your opinion but some things aren't black and white textbook items like you seem to believe. Some people are simply book smart and street stupid and I don't mean that to be derogatory but basic human behavior, logic, and common sense seems to be missing from far too many. The multiplier effect in this economy is the American consumer keeping more of what they earn and spending it as they see fit. Supply side works and always will and there are millions of people like me as proof.
    Arbitrarily chanting supply side without even a most basic understanding discredits your entire argument. Then you go off and recreate definitions (a sign that you cannot keep up with the conversation) e.g. "the multiplier effect is the American consumer keeping more of what they earn". Of course, Keynes identified various tax break style stimulus in the 30's, but the "effectiveness" (pun intended) is dependent upon ones marginal propensity to consume domestic goods, e.g. the percentage of ones income that is spent on domestic goods/services.

    If tax cuts are saved rather than spent (which coincides with the evidence), the multiplier is marginal. Given the state of interest rates, inflationary expectations, consumer deleveraging, unemployment, etc..., supply side remedies are simply unnecessary. It worked in the 1980's because of the high rate of inflation during that time.

    If you have any questions regarding supply side economics, do not hesitate to ask
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Arbitrarily chanting supply side without even a most basic understanding discredits your entire argument. Then you go off and recreate definitions (a sign that you cannot keep up with the conversation) e.g. "the multiplier effect is the American consumer keeping more of what they earn". Of course, Keynes identified various tax break style stimulus in the 30's, but the "effectiveness" (pun intended) is dependent upon ones marginal propensity to consume domestic goods, e.g. the percentage of ones income that is spent on domestic goods/services.

    If tax cuts are saved rather than spent (which coincides with the evidence), the multiplier is marginal. Given the state of interest rates, inflationary expectations, consumer deleveraging, unemployment, etc..., supply side remedies are simply unnecessary. It worked in the 1980's because of the high rate of inflation during that time.

    If you have any questions regarding supply side economics, do not hesitate to ask
    Like all liberals you wanto to make it complicated but it isn't. All the money for the govt. comes from the taxpayers and today that is 53% of the income earners whereas 47% don't pay any income taxes. When you raise the taxes on that 53% or in this case only the top 2% the govt. first doesn't generate enough revenue to make a difference in the debt, nor a dent in the slow economic growth. Top income earners aren't stupid, they change their spending habits and that hurts the economy.

    It is very simple, allow the taxpayer to keep more of their own money and they need less of that so called govt. help? By allowing people to keep their money they spend it and that increases business profits and thus higher tax revenues. That also means more jobs.

    I don't have a lot of interest in your theories and book smart rhetoric. We are seeing the results today generated by book smart street stupid liberal elitists who continue to appeal to the 47% that don't pay any taxes. Whether or not taxpayers spend, save, invest, or pay off debt that increases the private economy and individual wealth which promotes the principles upon which this economy was built.

    Unless you focus on the role of the govt. then nothing else matters. Appealing to special interest groups i.e. unions and the non income taxpayers you divide the country and do nothing to promote individual wealth creation.

    Have you ever created a job? What is your experience at growing the economy? All your textbook rhetoric doesn't equate to the real world and the bottom line remains, people keeping more of what they earn means less of a "need" for all that govt. help.
    Last edited by Conservative; 09-05-10 at 01:06 PM.

  9. #629
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Like all liberals you wanto to make it complicated but it isn't. All the money for the govt. comes from the taxpayers and today that is 53% of the income earners whereas 47% don't pay any income taxes. When you raise the taxes on that 53% or in this case only the top 2% the govt. first doesn't generate enough revenue to make a difference in the debt, nor a dent in the slow economic growth. Top income earners aren't stupid, they change their spending habits and that hurts the economy.

    It is very simple, allow the taxpayer to keep more of their own money and they need less of that so called govt. help? By allowing people to keep their money they spend it and that increases business profits and thus higher tax revenues. That also means more jobs.

    I don't have a lot of interest in your theories and book smart rhetoric. We are seeing the results today generated by book smart street stupid liberal elitists who continue to appeal to the 47% that don't pay any taxes. Whether or not taxpayers spend, save, invest, or pay off debt that increases the private economy and individual wealth which promotes the principles upon which this economy was built.

    Unless you focus on the role of the govt. then nothing else matters. Appealing to special interest groups i.e. unions and the non income taxpayers you divide the country and do nothing to promote individual wealth creation.

    Have you ever created a job? What is your experience at growing the economy? All your textbook rhetoric doesn't equate to the real world and the bottom line remains, people keeping more of what they earn means less of a "need" for all that govt. help.
    My comments pertain to what you state here; i can care less about your opinions, beliefs etc.... You have neither the means or justification to bring me into your reply from a personal standpoint. Instead of responding to my statements, you become emotional and attack me. This is a weak way of arguing (juvenile actually).

    Do you see? I am responding to what you actually state, not my perception of "why" you state it.

    argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise. The ad hominem is a classic logical fallacy. The ad hominem is not always fallacious, for in some instances questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.
    Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #630
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    My comments pertain to what you state here; i can care less about your opinions, beliefs etc.... You have neither the means or justification to bring me into your reply from a personal standpoint. Instead of responding to my statements, you become emotional and attack me. This is a weak way of arguing (juvenile actually).

    Do you see? I am responding to what you actually state, not my perception of "why" you state it.


    Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    My statement and beliefs come from 35 years in the business world actually running a multi million dollar business thus real life experiences and that coupled with the book smarts gained from a college degree formed my knowledge base and thus gives me the credibility to refute booksmart liberals with no real life experiences.

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