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Thread: GOP plan to extend tax cuts for rich adds $36 billion

  1. #541
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    I tried to keep up with this thread, but 54 pages...my eyes began to bleed after page 10!

    Found this article today (originally published on NYTimes.com, but redistributed on CNBC.com), "Tax Cuts That Make a Difference," that breaks down the various recommendations economists have made to get our nation's economy going again, as well as provides some history as to what works and what doesn't. Here's an interesting snippet:

    The question, then, is what kind of cut can put people back to work quickly?

    The last 30 years offer some pretty good answers
    . For one thing, a permanent reduction in tax rates focused on the affluent — along the lines of those 2001 Bush tax cuts — does little to lift growth in the short term. An across-the-board, one-time cut — like the one that Mr. Bush signed in 2008 or that Mr. Obama signed last year — does more.

    But the most effective tax cut for putting people back to work quickly is one that businesses and households get only if they spend money. Last year’s cash-for-clunkers program was an example. So was a recent bipartisan tax credit for businesses that hired workers who had been unemployed for months. Perhaps the broadest example is a temporary cut in the payroll tax for businesses, which reduces the cost of employing people.

    Any of these steps would increase the budget deficit, obviously. But relative to the multitrillion-dollar, Medicare-driven, long-term deficit, a temporary tax cut costing a couple of hundred billion dollars isn’t significant. The more pressing problem today, by far, is the weak economy.

    The great historical lesson of financial crises is that governments are usually not aggressive enough in responding. That was Japan’s mistake in 1990s, Herbert Hoover’s in the early 1930s and even Franklin Roosevelt’s in the mid-1930s.

    In 2008 and 2009, political leaders looked as if they had learned this lesson. In 2010, they seem to have forgotten it.

    Sometime in the next four months, Congress will have to decide what to do about Mr. Bush’s original tax cuts, because they are set to expire Dec. 31. Most Democrats favor extending the cuts for households making less than $250,000 a year. Republicans want to make all the cuts permanent, including those for households making more than $250,000.

    Republicans argue that a permanent cut in tax rates is the best form of stimulus. Allowing any of the Bush cuts to expire, John Boehner, the top House Republican, said in a speech last week laying out the party’s economic agenda, is “a recipe for disaster.”

    As theories go, this isn’t a bad one. You can certainly imagine how a tax increase on the affluent could hurt the economy or how a tax cut for them would lift growth. Theories aside, though, consider what has actually happened in the last three decades.

    Mr. Bush signed his original tax cut in June 2001, when the economy had been losing jobs for four months. It then shed jobs for two more years. In the decade that followed the tax cut, economic growth was slower than in any decade since World War II.

    If the goal is short-term stimulus, even Ronald Reagan’s much-lauded 1981 tax cut doesn’t appear to have worked. After he signed it, the economy lost jobs for 16 straight months. It didn’t start gaining jobs until after he had raised taxes, to reduce the deficit, in late 1982.

    What explains this pattern? Tax rates matter, but people don’t make most decisions based primarily on their marginal tax rates. Mr. Bush’s and Mr. Reagan’s tax cuts were just not powerful enough to overcome the economic headwinds at the time.
    Read the rest, then let's discuss.

  2. #542
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I tried to keep up with this thread, but 54 pages...my eyes began to bleed after page 10!

    Found this article today (originally published on NYTimes.com, but redistributed on CNBC.com), "Tax Cuts That Make a Difference," that breaks down the various recommendations economists have made to get our nation's economy going again, as well as provides some history as to what works and what doesn't. Here's an interesting snippet:



    Read the rest, then let's discuss.
    Where on earth do these people get their data? BEA.gov shows economic growth doubling during the Reagan term and income tax revenue doubling. Those that claim the Reagan tax cuts went into effect in 1981 don't have a clue, they weren't even passed until August. that is distorted journalism. In addition over 18 million jobs were created during the Reagan Administration and that is coming off an economy where mortgage rates were 17% and we had double digit inflation.

    During the Bush years again another distortion, Bush inherited a recession that cost jobs.. His first year tax cuts were like Obama's rebate checks that do no good at all. Once gone they are gone. His rate cut didn't go into effect until July 2003 and were followed by over 50 months of positive job growth and strong economic growth. Bush didn't have the job growth but faced challenges that no other President ever had, 9/11 and the closest election in U.S. History along with a Democrat Party that was still contesting the election until the GOP Took complete control of Congress in January 2003.

    Bush did a lot of good things but the media destroyed him over the war and the vocal anti war crowd picked up the baton. Historians will judge Bush a lot better than many in the public even though many today are starting to come around after seeing two years of Obama and his radical agenda.

    It gets frustrating to me when I see the liberal elite arguing against Americans keeping more of their own money. Why people continue to buy the rhetoric and actually ignore the results is absolutely amazing to me. The U.S. Treasury shows govt. revenue growing AFTER the tax cuts and no liberal can explain why?

    After years of arguing the benefits of people keeping more of their money I really don't have a lot more patience on that issue. If I have to convince you the value of you keeping more of what you earn and how that affects the economy, you are part of the problem, not the solution.

    Anyone that says the economic policies of Reagan and Bush didn't work are totally ignorant of the facts. BEA.gov, BLS.gov, and the U.S. Treasury are non partisan sites that give actual data, not projections. People complaining about both need to start there and get away from the liberal rags.

  3. #543
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I tried to keep up with this thread, but 54 pages...my eyes began to bleed after page 10!

    Found this article today (originally published on NYTimes.com, but redistributed on CNBC.com), "Tax Cuts That Make a Difference," that breaks down the various recommendations economists have made to get our nation's economy going again, as well as provides some history as to what works and what doesn't. Here's an interesting snippet:



    Read the rest, then let's discuss.
    <Sometime in the next four months, Congress will have to decide what to do about Mr. Bush’s original tax cuts, because they are set to expire Dec. 31. Most Democrats favor extending the cuts for households making less than $250,000 a year. Republicans want to make all the cuts permanent, including those for households making more than $250,000.>




    My strategy on this part, if I was advising administration would be to keep hanging the “cuts for households making less than $250,000 a year” in front of the republicans, naturally they will appose it. TADA…comes the new year and right under the happy new year there will be this headline “REPUBLICANS SHOOT DOWN TAXCUTS FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  4. #544
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    <Sometime in the next four months, Congress will have to decide what to do about Mr. Bush’s original tax cuts, because they are set to expire Dec. 31. Most Democrats favor extending the cuts for households making less than $250,000 a year. Republicans want to make all the cuts permanent, including those for households making more than $250,000.>




    My strategy on this part, if I was advising administration would be to keep hanging the “cuts for households making less than $250,000 a year” in front of the republicans, naturally they will appose it. TADA…comes the new year and right under the happy new year there will be this headline “REPUBLICANS SHOOT DOWN TAXCUTS FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS.
    Honestly, the Democrats could propose cutting taxes across the board and cutting medicare and social security and all that ENTITLEMENT spending, and the GOP would oppose it. Because the Democrats are bad, therefore what they do is bad. The GOP has already shown that they'll unanimously vote down their own ideas when a Democrat has his name on it.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  5. #545
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    <Sometime in the next four months, Congress will have to decide what to do about Mr. Bush’s original tax cuts, because they are set to expire Dec. 31. Most Democrats favor extending the cuts for households making less than $250,000 a year. Republicans want to make all the cuts permanent, including those for households making more than $250,000.>




    My strategy on this part, if I was advising administration would be to keep hanging the “cuts for households making less than $250,000 a year” in front of the republicans, naturally they will appose it. TADA…comes the new year and right under the happy new year there will be this headline “REPUBLICANS SHOOT DOWN TAXCUTS FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS.
    Why do you want to penalize people simply because they make more than you? What do you think the fair share is for those evil rich people since obviously what they pay now isn't enough? By the way, Read the following and tell me that the rich got a great deal under Bush.

    RealClearMarkets - The Hidden Truth About the Bush Tax Increases

  6. #546
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Honestly, the Democrats could propose cutting taxes across the board and cutting medicare and social security and all that ENTITLEMENT spending, and the GOP would oppose it. Because the Democrats are bad, therefore what they do is bad. The GOP has already shown that they'll unanimously vote down their own ideas when a Democrat has his name on it.
    Ok, tell me what legislation the Democrats have implemented the past 2 years that has been beneficial to the country? Seems that poll numbers say that the so called party of "no" did the right thing.

  7. #547
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Conservative

    Why do you want to penalize people simply because they make more than you?
    I don’t like seeing the middle-class shrinking and the republican party is the main cause of said shrinking. When you look at some stats besides faux news, you come up with the following stats.

    < Only the top 5 percent of U.S. households have earned enough additional income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975. >

    < In 1950, the ratio of the average executive's paycheck to the average worker's paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one. >

    < The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth. >

    < 66 percent of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans. >



    What do you think the fair share is for those evil rich people since obviously what they pay now isn't enough?

    Something between these years of, January 20, 1993 – January 20, 2001.

    By the way, Read the following and tell me that the rich got a great deal under Bush.
    See bolded bullet point number four above.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  8. #548
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    I don’t like seeing the middle-class shrinking and the republican party is the main cause of said shrinking. When you look at some stats besides faux news, you come up with the following stats.

    < Only the top 5 percent of U.S. households have earned enough additional income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975. >

    < In 1950, the ratio of the average executive's paycheck to the average worker's paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one. >

    < The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth. >

    < 66 percent of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans. >




    Something between these years of, January 20, 1993 – January 20, 2001.



    See bolded bullet point number four above.
    Sounds to me like you live in the wrong country. How does someone getting wealthy hurt the middle class?

    Bullet point number 4 doesn't mean a thing to me as I really don't care. We live in the greatest country on the face of the earth that allows people to become all they can be and you seem to want to decide how much someone else should make. Just think of how great it would be if you focused on being the best you could be and millions of others did the same thing. Too bad you are consumed by class envy. It isn't the government's responsibility to determine winners and losers.

    I still don't see an answer to my question, what do you think the fair share is that the rich should pay? Noticed that you ignored the article I posted showing what the rich actually pay and how much it went up during the Bush term. Wonder why? Amazing how easily some people are brainwashed.

  9. #549
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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Ok, tell me what legislation the Democrats have implemented the past 2 years that has been beneficial to the country? Seems that poll numbers say that the so called party of "no" did the right thing.
    How are poll numbers relevant to the GOP voting down their own ideas?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why do you want to penalize people simply because they make more than you? What do you think the fair share is for those evil rich people since obviously what they pay now isn't enough? By the way, Read the following and tell me that the rich got a great deal under Bush.

    RealClearMarkets - The Hidden Truth About the Bush Tax Increases
    The GOP appeals to winners and the Dems appeal to losers. When a majority of people think they are winners or could be winners, the GOP wins, when a majority of people believe that they cannot win the dems win the election. THe dems have to tell the middle class that the rich are the reason why people in the middle class aren't rich in order to win elections



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