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GOP plan to extend tax cuts for rich adds $36 billion

Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Concerning 401k and IRA investing, when the average guy withdraws that, he pays a tax rate based on AGI for the year, which for me and my wife was up in the 34% range 2 years ago, and that is whether the account earned money, or lost money. Our income was part earned, and part unearned. We paid SS on the earned portion.

The rich invest in regular accounts, their profits are capital gains on unearned income, and get a preferred tax rate of 15%. They don't pay into SS on unearned income.

Warren Buffet says his employees pay a higher tax rate than he does...

The rich have the politicians in their pockets, while the gullible middle class have no pockets. A lot of middle class demand tax cuts that will save them a few hundred a year, but save the uber rich a few hundred thousand a year, or more....

And for those "conservatives" who think I envy the rich, the wife and I have plenty of assets and our retirement income accumulates faster than we can spend it.

Wonder how much Warren Buffet would pay in taxes if he didn't donate most of his income to charity? Given the opportunity I will recommend to him that he stop donating to local charities so he can give more money to the govt. so that the govt. can send the money back to local charities.

In fact all those evil rich people need to do the same thing, stop giving to charities letting those charities fend for themselves, pay higher taxes so that the bureaucrats in D.C. can handle the money and send it to the charities they deem worthy, democrat constituent groups.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

So the progressive tax system is working pretty well....

Only if you define "progress" as "the process of stripping the freedom and prosperity from the free-est and most prosperous nation the world has ever seen.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Now that's the spirit, don't care about what the rich pay. My bet is those that don't pay any income taxes could care less what others pay as well. Isn't it easy supporting something that doesn't affect you?

You try living paycheck to paycheck for 20 years and then tell me weather or not you care what they get taxed. BTW, I never said I supported the rich getting taxed to high hell or not. ;)
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Utah Bill, heard of the Son of Boss tax scheme? A completely artificial way to generate insanely large fake losses to completely eliminate all taxable income? It ain't the poor and middle class who are using them.

Isn't the Son of Boss designed to lower capital gains taxes? Why don't we do with the capital gains tax that we do with income taxes, raise the rates on those who do pay capital gains taxes to offset the lost revenue from those how use this tax scheme.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Utah Bill, heard of the Son of Boss tax scheme? A completely artificial way to generate insanely large fake losses to completely eliminate all taxable income? It ain't the poor and middle class who are using them.

Two Words:

Flat Tax.

Three Words:

National Sales Tax.

Four Word:

No Value Added Tax.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

You try living paycheck to paycheck for 20 years and then tell me weather or not you care what they get taxed. BTW, I never said I supported the rich getting taxed to high hell or not. ;)

I know, my apology, it does seem to be a popular position however by far too many. Those that pay no income taxes don't seem to care about how much taxes others pay as they keep electing the same people over and over again that raise taxes.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Two Words:

Flat Tax.

Three Words:

National Sales Tax.

Four Word:

No Value Added Tax.

Now, now, if we had any of these how would some elected officials keep getting re-elected by those dependent on paying nothing in income taxes
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

I know, my apology, it does seem to be a popular position however by far too many. Those that pay no income taxes don't seem to care about how much taxes others pay as they keep electing the same people over and over again that raise taxes.

NP. :)

It is a popular position of the poor I'll agree. But for me at least it is simply because I'm more worried about paying the bills and putting food on the table for my kids. Not from any perception of entitlement that does seem to be rampant in this country.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Isn't the Son of Boss designed to lower capital gains taxes?

Specifically? No. Can it indirectly by eliminating all taxable income? Yes.

Why don't we do with the capital gains tax that we do with income taxes, raise the rates on those who do pay capital gains taxes to offset the lost revenue from those how use this tax scheme.

A better idea would be to impose ridiculously large fines on those who use it rather then simply disallow the reduction in taxes with the current fine system.

I do believe BOSS was a KPMG product. Not surprising it's massively illegal.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Less. But you ignored his point. He's talking about RATE. Not amount.

Ok, thanks, I just get so confused, just doesn't seem right that he would pay less in taxes if he didn't have the deductions for charitable giving but I bow to your superior wisdom
 
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Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Specifically? No. Can it indirectly by eliminating all taxable income? Yes.



A better idea would be to impose ridiculously large fines on those who use it rather then simply disallow the reduction in taxes with the current fine system.

I do believe BOSS was a KPMG product. Not surprising it's massively illegal.

Yes, and we know how badly the govt. needs the taxpayer money since they spend it so effeciently. We all should be concerned about paying for that meager 3.8 trillion dollar budget and all those bailouts for after all that income from the individual should be the government's first.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Ok, thanks, I just get so confused, just doesn't seem right that he would pay less in taxes if he didn't have the deductions for charitable giving but I bow to your superior wisdom

Well, his effective tax rate would drop to 7.5% as cash donations are limited to 50% of total taxable income. As his income is effectively taxed at the 15% rate with a immaterial change due to his standard deduction, donating half his wealth would slice his marginal effective in half. It's not going to be exactly 7.5% but it will be close. At $48.1 million in 2006, his itemized phase out is almost a million, but donating $68+ billion will ensure his carry over is quite large indefinitely. So his taxable income was $24.05 million, which at 19% is $4.5 million split between state and federal. That's signifcently less then my effective tax rate.

And yes, you should bow to my superior wisdom.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Well, his effective tax rate would drop to 7.5% as cash donations are limited to 50% of total taxable income. As his income is effectively taxed at the 15% rate with a immaterial change due to his standard deduction, donating half his wealth would slice his marginal effective in half. It's not going to be exactly 7.5% but it will be close. At $48.1 million in 2006, his itemized phase out is almost a million, but donating $68+ billion will ensure his carry over is quite large indefinitely. So his taxable income was $24.05 million, which at 19% is $4.5 million split between state and federal. That's signifcently less then my effective tax rate.


And yes, you should bow to my superior wisdom.

Wow, impressive, you indeed have superior wisdom to everyone in this forum which is lucky to have you but I stated that he shouldn't contribute to charities thus would have no charitable deductions meaning that his taxable income would be a lot higher. Sorry if I wasn't clearer. We all know that rich people should stop giving to charities and send all their money to the govt. so they can deliver it to the charities they deem worthy.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Wow, impressive, you indeed have superior wisdom to everyone in this forum which is lucky to have you but I stated that he shouldn't contribute to charities thus would have no charitable deductions meaning that his taxable income would be a lot higher. Sorry if I wasn't clearer. We all know that rich people should stop giving to charities and send all their money to the govt. so they can deliver it to the charities they deem worthy.

Wow, impressive you still can't read properly. Utahbill was talking about tax rates. You screwed that up. I merely calculated the change to his effectively marginal tax rate showing that charitable deductions would further slice an already low effective tax rate to even new lows.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Specifically? No. Can it indirectly by eliminating all taxable income? Yes.



A better idea would be to impose ridiculously large fines on those who use it rather then simply disallow the reduction in taxes with the current fine system.

I do believe BOSS was a KPMG product. Not surprising it's massively illegal.

I could have sworn that this site claims that Son of Boss was a tax scheme to prevent paying capital gains taxes

Introduction to the Son of Boss Abusive Tax Shelter Transaction
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

I could have sworn that this site claims that Son of Boss was a tax scheme to prevent paying capital gains taxes

Introduction to the Son of Boss Abusive Tax Shelter Transaction

Not all BOSS and SON of BOSS function in the exact same way. But they all share the underlying principle of generating large artificial losses. Some BOSS and SON of BOSS worked in the context of partnerships to generate large artificial passive losses to reduce other passive income. The whole notion behind BOSS and SON of BOSS is large artificial losses to take aganist varying forms of income. One particular one I remember was generating fake partnership losses to eliminate large guaranteed payments to partners. That's eliminating effectively earned income. True, they revolve around basis, but basis alone doesn't dictate what type of loss you'll have.
 
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Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Wow, impressive you still can't read properly. Utahbill was talking about tax rates. You screwed that up. I merely calculated the change to his effectively marginal tax rate showing that charitable deductions would further slice an already low effective tax rate to even new lows.

You are right really screwed that up as I always get caught up in how much actual money is paid instead of the rate charged. Seems that is a better way of looking at things but again you are much, much smarter. I guess your answer still stands that if Buffet didn't contribute to any charities his rate would still be 7.5%.

Oh, by the way, I was responding to Bill as well when he talked about Warren Buffet paying less taxes than his secretary. I thought for sure that charitable giving reduced tax liability.
 
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Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

You are still wrong, go look at that table again and pay close attention to the letters - AGI at the top of the column - they mean something.

While you're at it, please peruse the following link:

Tax shelter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm well aware of what a tax shelter is, I'm asking you how you think they affect the numbers. As I stated already, you seem to be vastly overestimating their significance. Just shouting "THE RICH USE TAX SHELTERS OH NOES" doesn't really prove anything.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

You are right really screwed

Yes you did. Confusing rate and amount is what you did.

that up as I always get caught up in how much actual money is paid instead of the rate charged.

Yet you support a flat tax no? It would seem you are being once again, dishonest. You only care about certain things when it supports your current argument only to flip around when it doesn't.

Seems that is a better way of looking at things but again you are much, much smarter.

Only if you were consistent. Which you are anything but.

I guess your answer still stands that if Buffet didn't contribute to any charities his rate would still be 7.5%.

Guess my point still stands that you can't read properly. Saying my answer that Buffet would have a 7.5% effective without donating shows you have no idea what my post actually stated.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Yes you did. Confusing rate and amount is what you did.



Yet you support a flat tax no? It would seem you are being once again, dishonest. You only care about certain things when it supports your current argument only to flip around when it doesn't.



Only if you were consistent. Which you are anything but.



Guess my point still stands that you can't read properly. Saying my answer that Buffet would have a 7.5% effective without donating shows you have no idea what my post actually stated.

That is why I am so glad that you are here to correct me. I am amazed that if Warren Buffet didn't contribute to charity that his tax rate would still be 7.5%. I would have thought that tax rates are applied to the net income after deductions but apparently I am wrong. I really need to have you do my taxes for me since you obviously are able to get a better tax refund by getting me a lower rate without deductions. I can now save a lot more thanks to you.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Conservative

[So you think taking more taxes from the rich will help the middle class?

What I find it amazing is that someone could ask me this in the same post that they have this to say” Do you realize how foolish your statement is “. Its been shown to you many times over this thread and other threads, still you keep repeating the RNC line. If you want to look a fool in the eye, take a close look at the one looking back at you the next time you shave. :2wave:



Please give me an example of anytime that higher taxes made someone in the middle class move up a class?

I already did, in the post that you quoted. Here’s a hint, its hid under the capital letters (TEFRA).:roll:
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

So are you saying I should be patting rich people on the back even though under Bush they got a much better tax break?

maybe you should be whining less about the rich and keeping your class envy on the dl

the rich still pay far more of the taxes than any rational concept of fairness would demand.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Yes, and we know how badly the govt. needs the taxpayer money since they spend it so effeciently. We all should be concerned about paying for that meager 3.8 trillion dollar budget and all those bailouts for after all that income from the individual should be the government's first.

See, what is pissing me off, is the fact that you ignore that I'm in favor of spending changes.

You just play off stereotypes that I "Loooooove" taxes and spending. I want spending changed. We need to cut spending from inefficient programs. I totally support that. But from your responses to my posts, you typecast me in one way that I am not. Spending habits of government must be changed. Only those programs that work should be funded.

I think tax rates should be based on the contributions you make to the economy overall.

So sorry that I want to improve things for everyone and not just the top 1%.
 
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