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GOP plan to extend tax cuts for rich adds $36 billion

Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Conservative said:
Does it matter? If someone uses the services provided by the country then they should pay something. Obviously you disagree and believe that someone else should pay for you as well. I asked you what the fair share was for the rich who pay most of the taxes in this country, think they use most of the services that the Federal Budget provides? Obviously you believe the fair share for 47% is zero.
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Since you are for the so-called "Fair Tax" and I am for a progressive tax, this discussion is going nowhere fast.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

pbrauer said:
Since you are for the so-called "Fair Tax" and I am for a progressive tax, this discussion is going nowhere fast.
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Yes, I can see how much you care about fairness, 47% of the people in this country don't pay income taxes but that is ok with you in spite of the fact that they are the ones that use many of the services provided in the budget yet you don't care about raising taxes on the top 2% that pay the most now. Apparently the fair share to you is that the top income EARNERS in this country pay all the taxes.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

randel said:
how many times does this need to be explained to you? what part of the 'buzzword' thing don't you understand? you fall back to this everytime someone corners you...i care about who would benefit from tax cuts, and frankly, the top 2 percent don't need them. why are we giving more money to the people who already have more than enough to live on? for several lifetimes?? what do you have against the poor and middleclass? why not give them these tax cuts? why do you want to penalize the poor and middleclass? why do you support class warfare against the middleclass and poor? why?
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where do you get off speaking for the top 2%

you libs always want to pretend that anyone doing better than you do should be soaked because they can afford it

that is complete crap. How do we give tax cuts to people who don't pay for what they use in the first place

if you don't make the group that votes for the big government spenders suffer from that spending, they have no incentive to curtail the budget busting nonsense
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

pbrauer said:
What is the reason the 47% pay no income tax? Does everyone one who earns some money need to pay taxes in your world?
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anyone who votes needs to pay some taxes and they need to suffer when the government increases spending
 
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TurtleDude said:
anyone who votes needs to pay some taxes and they need to suffer when the government increases spending
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Any one whoever bought something in this country has paid a tax be they from Timbuktu or wherever.
 
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winston53660 said:
Any one whoever bought something in this country has paid a tax be they from Timbuktu or wherever.
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the issue is federal income taxes

you don't pay federal income taxes you should have no say in the application and rate of federal income taxes since you have no skin in the game
 
Conservative said:
You are kidding, right, SS surplus should go to pay down the public debt? What about the intergovt. holdings which it was taken from? Apparently you don't realize it is your SS money that is being spent on other items? Where is the money going to come from that you expect when you retire and you contributed for decades?

The surplus in the budget with money taken from govt. holdings isn't a surplus at all. I cannot believe we are having this argument. You obviously don't understand SS.
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Conservative, I fully understand what you are saying. However I am not arguing about the long run sustainability of SS, I am speaking of the unified budget. This is how the federal government reports all of its budget supluses/deficits. By your logic, literally every president since the unified budget was created has been "lying" about his budget balance.

Unified budget reciepts exceed unified budget expenditures during the years we are speaking of, and this resulted in a decrease in debt held by the public (hence a surplus). You seem to think that internal borrowing is somehow included in the unified budget, which goes against the definition of a unified budget. There was a surplus, by definintion, during the "clinton years" that are in question.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Conservative said:
Yes, I can see how much you care about fairness, 47% of the people in this country don't pay income taxes but that is ok with you in spite of the fact that they are the ones that use many of the services provided in the budget yet you don't care about raising taxes on the top 2% that pay the most now. Apparently the fair share to you is that the top income EARNERS in this country pay all the taxes.
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You are putting words in my mouth, I never said nor would I say the top income earners should pay all taxes. Going back to the pre Bush level for them is fair in my view. Even at that level they earn so much they would have an effective tax rate lower than much of the middle class.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

TurtleDude said:
the issue is federal income taxes

you don't pay federal income taxes you should have no say in the application and rate of federal income taxes since you have no skin in the game
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Don't look now, but nobody outside the Congress and President has a say in what the rate of income taxes is. :2razz:
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

pbrauer said:
You are putting words in my mouth, I never said nor would I say the top income earners should pay all taxes. Going back to the pre Bush level for them is fair in my view. Even at that level they earn so much they would have an effective tax rate lower than much of the middle class.
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I know the soundbites but are we really going back to pre-Bush rates for upper income folks. The change will not only bring marginal rates up but will also bring the rates for dividends and capital gains well above the Clinton rates. In addition, as you may know many states looking for funds have raised the state income tax rate for upper income folks. Lastly the HC bill has an add on tax of 3.8% on capital gains for upper income people.

I just retired, it wasn't worth paying all these taxes, even before these increased rates.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

TurtleDude said:
where do you get off speaking for the top 2%

you libs always want to pretend that anyone doing better than you do should be soaked because they can afford it

that is complete crap. How do we give tax cuts to people who don't pay for what they use in the first place

if you don't make the group that votes for the big government spenders suffer from that spending, they have no incentive to curtail the budget busting nonsense
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tell me, where is the sense in giving tax breaks to those that don't need them?? why should they get more breaks??? if your one of the top 2 %, you already have more money than you will ever need....talking more tax cuts when we have a budget that has been balanced in years...utter stupidity
 
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randel said:
tell me, where is the sense in giving tax breaks to those that don't need them?? why should they get more breaks??? if your one of the top 2 %, you already have more money than you will ever need....talking more tax cuts when we have a budget that has been balanced in years...utter stupidity
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What is your evidence that anyone doesn't need the income they earn and you you understand that it is their money first? Same tired old class envy rhetoric, different day. How about showing us where more revenue going to the govt. actually balanced the budget and paid down the debt. Donc, couldn't do it so give it a try?
 
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randel said:
you should be ashamed to be drinking that kool-aid
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Really, ashamed? What is it in that video that is false? For some reason you seem to believe it is patriotic supporting the economic policy of this President yet have not explained why it is patriotic supporting a policy that has increased unemployment and the debt?

Not once have you offered anything to put 16 million people back to work and are of the misguided opinion that taking someone else's money and giving it to the govt. is better than those people using their own money to contribute to charity.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

pbrauer said:
You are putting words in my mouth, I never said nor would I say the top income earners should pay all taxes. Going back to the pre Bush level for them is fair in my view. Even at that level they earn so much they would have an effective tax rate lower than much of the middle class.
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Have you not said that the rich need to pay "their fair share?" What exactly is "their fair share" in your world? Again with the tax rates? Did the rich people pay more or less in actual taxes due to the Bush tax cuts?
 
drz-400 said:
Conservative, I fully understand what you are saying. However I am not arguing about the long run sustainability of SS, I am speaking of the unified budget. This is how the federal government reports all of its budget supluses/deficits. By your logic, literally every president since the unified budget was created has been "lying" about his budget balance.

Unified budget reciepts exceed unified budget expenditures during the years we are speaking of, and this resulted in a decrease in debt held by the public (hence a surplus). You seem to think that internal borrowing is somehow included in the unified budget, which goes against the definition of a unified budget. There was a surplus, by definintion, during the "clinton years" that are in question.
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If you fully understand the unified budget then you know as you stated that Clinton was dishonest with the American people about reducing the U.S. Debt. I agree with you, ALL Presidents have used the SS surplus to show a lower debt than we actually had however that unified debt is what is shown by the U.S. Treasury and there was no reduction at all.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

MaggieD said:
The CRA under Clinton started it. Bush continued it. Barney Frank's oversight committee did absolutely nothing to stop irresponsible lending by FHA, Fanny/Freddie. S&P, Fitch, Moody's fraudlently rated the portfolios as AAA. Wall Street did what Wall Street always does. Tried to make a profit.
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that's just bs. it's so much more complicated than that. and in the end, it comes down to corporate greed.
 
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liblady said:
that's just bs. it's so much more complicated than that. and in the end, it comes down to corporate greed.
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Since small business makes up 80% of the employment in this country is it their greed as well? Why aren't you concerned about political greed and the 3.8 trillion dollar Obama budget? you choose where you spend your dollar but don't care where the govt. spends your dollar, does that make sense to you?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Conservative said:
Have you not said that the rich need to pay "their fair share?" What exactly is "their fair share" in your world?
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No, I didn't use that phrase, look it up.

Again with the tax rates? Did the rich people pay more or less in actual taxes due to the Bush tax cuts?
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It doesn't take a genius or the proverbial rocket scientist to know they pay less due to the Bush tax cuts.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

pbrauer said:
No, I didn't use that phrase, look it up.


It doesn't take a genius or the proverbial rocket scientist to know they pay less due to the Bush tax cuts.
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Unfortunately you, like far too many, buy the liberal rhetoric that a reduction in tax rates means less revenue taken in the form of taxes. Are you ever going to admit that liberalism has made a fool out of you?

The Rich Pay More Taxes: Top 20 Percent Pay Record Share of Income Taxes | The Heritage Foundation
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Conservative said:
Unfortunately you, like far too many, buy the liberal rhetoric that a reduction in tax rates means less revenue taken in the form of taxes. Are you ever going to admit that liberalism has made a fool out of you?

The Rich Pay More Taxes: Top 20 Percent Pay Record Share of Income Taxes | The Heritage Foundation
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I knew you would pull that BS, see my sig conservative. On and individual basis the rich pay less and like I said, it doesn't take a genius to know this.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

pbrauer said:
I knew you would pull that BS, see my sig conservative. On and individual basis the rich pay less and like I said, it doesn't take a genius to know this.
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So you know what the individual actually pays in taxes? How do you know that? You assume based upon what you are told, that is how you know. The facts show differently. If the individual paid less in taxes and that is representative of all rich individuals then how did govt. revenue go up AFTER the Bush tax cuts on those individuals? Just another issue that you don't understand yet you continue to support liberalism?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

pbrauer said:
I knew you would pull that BS, see my sig conservative. On and individual basis the rich pay less and like I said, it doesn't take a genius to know this.
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LOL, so figures from the U.S. Treasury, the checkbook of the United States, lie now but liberals using CBO numbers don't? Got it. your sources are accurate but the U.S. Treasury lies? Find that Clinton surplus yet? How about the GOP control of Congress in 2002? I could go on with all your misinformation but won't waste my time.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Figures don't lie, but liars figure.
 
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