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GOP plan to extend tax cuts for rich adds $36 billion

Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Our granddaughter has an inoperable brain tumor, been on chemo 4 years, running out of options. Radiation is next, and that has terrible consequences for the rest of her brain. Luckily, her parents have good insurance that pays 100% after the annual deductible, but for a lot of little kids down at Phoenix Children's Hospital, their parents have to pay 20%, and that is enough to bankrupt them.
How we treat the unfortunate is a measure of our greatness as a country.

By the way, Bill, I am so sorry to hear about your granddaughter. Fighting cancer is a tough battle and I know what you are experiencing only a little closer to home. My wife has colon cancer and went through the radiation and chemo treatments. I have first hand knowledge of the pain and suffering cancer creates. Your granddaughter is in my thoughts and prayers.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

You would think that fiscal conservatives would be opposed to extending any tax breaks until the budget is balanced. Deficits mean that Americans are not paying enough. I oppose extending any of Bush's tax cuts.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

You would think that fiscal conservatives would be opposed to extending any tax breaks until the budget is balanced. Deficits mean that Americans are not paying enough. I oppose extending any of Bush's tax cuts.

Why is it you have a problem understanding that revenue to the govt. went up AFTER the tax rate cuts of Reagan and Bush thus had no affect on the deficit. It is all about spending and what you believe to be the role of the govt. Balancing the budget could have easily been done with the increase in revenue from the tax rate cuts but as usual Congress sees a dollar and spends it.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

By the way, Bill, I am so sorry to hear about your granddaughter. Fighting cancer is a tough battle and I know what you are experiencing only a little closer to home. My wife has colon cancer and went through the radiation and chemo treatments. I have first hand knowledge of the pain and suffering cancer creates. Your granddaughter is in my thoughts and prayers.

And returning the thoughts and prayers....my Dad died of that, but it was his fault for ignoring his doctor when told to go see a specialist.
Most churches aren't set up financially for the kind of expenses that can occur for serious illnesses. In just 4 years, our grandchild, Makenzie, has cost the insurance company almost a million dollars, with three million as her limit. Her initial tumor is inoperable, but they tried taking her off chemo to see what would happen, and she grew an extension of her existing tumor that went from Zip to golf ball size in a few months. That one was operable, but it took almost 5 months for her to recover physically. Mentally and emotionally, she now knows without a doubt that this could kill her, or at the least seriously handicap her. She goes to Camp Rainbow every summer, a retreat for kids like her, and every year she learns that there is some little friend who has died.
Her situation is why I am for a healthcare system that takes over at a certain point for catastrophic illnesses. For day to day routine illnesses, if govt covers it, there needs to be a deductible and sliding scale copays to keep the hypochondriacs from flooding the system. I know too many people who can afford insurance, but won't "waste" the money on it. They have plenty of funds for their wants, but disregard the needs of their children.
As for taxes, I know the govt wastes a lot of it, but I still don't mind paying them. I just wish that we were truly free to suffer the consequences of bad behavior. Then the available funds can be used for those who are ill for no cause of their own...
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

And returning the thoughts and prayers....my Dad died of that, but it was his fault for ignoring his doctor when told to go see a specialist.
Most churches aren't set up financially for the kind of expenses that can occur for serious illnesses. In just 4 years, our grandchild, Makenzie, has cost the insurance company almost a million dollars, with three million as her limit. Her initial tumor is inoperable, but they tried taking her off chemo to see what would happen, and she grew an extension of her existing tumor that went from Zip to golf ball size in a few months. That one was operable, but it took almost 5 months for her to recover physically. Mentally and emotionally, she now knows without a doubt that this could kill her, or at the least seriously handicap her. She goes to Camp Rainbow every summer, a retreat for kids like her, and every year she learns that there is some little friend who has died.
Her situation is why I am for a healthcare system that takes over at a certain point for catastrophic illnesses. For day to day routine illnesses, if govt covers it, there needs to be a deductible and sliding scale copays to keep the hypochondriacs from flooding the system. I know too many people who can afford insurance, but won't "waste" the money on it. They have plenty of funds for their wants, but disregard the needs of their children.
As for taxes, I know the govt wastes a lot of it, but I still don't mind paying them. I just wish that we were truly free to suffer the consequences of bad behavior. Then the available funds can be used for those who are ill for no cause of their own...

A truly heartbreaking story and real life. I have five grandkids and cannot imagine that happening to any of them. It would destroy us as I am sure it is destroying you. I certainly wish you the best and would love to see a cure for this terrible disease. We have similar insurance and thank God for that. In my business we offered healthcare insurance for all employees, part time and full time. The company picked up over 80% of the cost of insurance and yet 50% participated mostly the "invinceable" crowd under 30 refused coverage as nothing could ever happen to them.

My frustration is with the govt. It is the only entity that doesn't have any consequences for failure and there should be. Many are like you in that they don't mind paying taxes but the problem is without accountability there is no incentive for the govt. to make sure the taxpayer is getting their money's worth. All I hear is rhetoric about spending in the name of compassion yet never anyone held accountable for the lack of compassionate results meaning problems solved. It is time to stop giving the govt. a blank check all because one believes it goes towards compassion. What it goes for is high administrative costs, waste, fraud and abuse.

thanks for the prayers, things are looking a lot better here.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

I have no problem with somebody getting rich, in fact I applaud it, more power to them. They can get "filthy rich" for all I care. I completely understand your example, however in my opinion the very rich can pay the higher taxes that existed before the the Bush tax breaks were implemented. You don't agree. Tough.

I have no problem with it either except in too many cases they get rich by screwing the little people who have more blind trust than the rich. Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware) is really a license to steal, because gullible buyers would rather eat their loses than admit they were taken. The very basis of TV advertising is to cleverly deceive, and the fact that these commercials are still playing on TV proves my point.

The poor trust, the rich take advantage of their gullibility, and the government doesn't care. That's the formula for all self-made nabobs to get rich today.

If the government would force all product purveyors to prove their claims, there would be far less rich people and more money in poor people's pockets to spend on things they really need.

ricksfolly
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Isn't that a community or charitable responsibility to assure that the children in your community get the best care vs letting a bureaucrat in D.C. administer it? My community does that quite well as my church constantly asks for donations to help someone with a significant expense mostly medical and as always the people in the parish have risen to the occasion.

When our situation first occurred, there were some rich people in our son's church in AZ offering to pay the annual deductible, and the Bishop had them split it, IIRC. Since then, some of them have helped with other expenses not even related to her illness, they just want to help. And of course, we have helped quite a bit. While that works well for large churches, I don't see it happening in the smaller ones. Our summer home community, Logan, Utah, has held at least 3 yard sales/fundraisers in the last few months, 2 for very ill children, and 1 for a single mom/teacher who has leukemia. Each time, 25 to 35K was raised. And in these cases, such donations aren't even tax deductible. Good communities, larger churches, etc. do a lot, but we can't expect that to be the case all the time, or even most of the time. And even churches have to be on guard against scammers....
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

I have no problem with it either except in too many cases they get rich by screwing the little people who have more blind trust than the rich. Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware) is really a license to steal, because gullible buyers would rather eat their loses than admit they were taken. The very basis of TV advertising is to cleverly deceive, and the fact that these commercials are still playing on TV proves my point.

The poor trust, the rich take advantage of their gullibility, and the government doesn't care. That's the formula for all self-made nabobs to get rich today.

If the government would force all product purveyors to prove their claims, there would be far less rich people and more money in poor people's pockets to spend on things they really need.

ricksfolly
smart consumerism should be taught starting in 8th grade, which too often is the last grade a lot of dropouts complete....
Ignorance is bliss, knowledge is power....
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

smart consumerism should be taught starting in 8th grade, which too often is the last grade a lot of dropouts complete....
Ignorance is bliss, knowledge is power....

That is the problem I have with liberalism as they feed on the ignorance of supporters by appealing to their hearts. The poorly informed have little civics, history, or economics training and that is evidenced in their reaction to the present economics conditions and the blame they put on Bush.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

That is the problem I have with liberalism as they feed on the ignorance of supporters by appealing to their hearts. The poorly informed have little civics, history, or economics training and that is evidenced in their reaction to the present economics conditions and the blame they put on Bush.
so...now you are saying that all liberals are 8th grade dropouts?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

so...now you are saying that all liberals are 8th grade dropouts?

that would be a disservice to 8th Grade dropouts of which my Dad was one. Interesting that he left home to work in the CC camps of Oregon making .50 a day sending half of that home. He joined the Navy at 18 and was at Pearl Harbor when it was bombed. He learned a trade in the military, started his own business, employed a lot of people, and successfully raised a family showing that hard work pays off, something sorely missing today.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

. He learned a trade in the military, started his own business, employed a lot of people, and successfully raised a family showing that hard work pays off, something sorely missing today.

How did he do that with such high taxes at the time?
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

That is the problem I have with liberalism as they feed on the ignorance of supporters by appealing to their hearts. The poorly informed have little civics, history, or economics training and that is evidenced in their reaction to the present economics conditions and the blame they put on Bush.

Whether Bush or Obama, they are JUST THE PRESIDENT, it takes congress to really screw things up...
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

Whether Bush or Obama, they are JUST THE PRESIDENT, it takes congress to really screw things up...

Couldn't agree more but the civics challenged people have a problem understanding that as it is easier blaming the President than actually thinking and doing research.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

I have no problem with it either except in too many cases they get rich by screwing the little people who have more blind trust than the rich. Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware) is really a license to steal, because gullible buyers would rather eat their loses than admit they were taken. The very basis of TV advertising is to cleverly deceive, and the fact that these commercials are still playing on TV proves my point.

The poor trust, the rich take advantage of their gullibility, and the government doesn't care. That's the formula for all self-made nabobs to get rich today.

If the government would force all product purveyors to prove their claims, there would be far less rich people and more money in poor people's pockets to spend on things they really need.

ricksfolly

The problem here is that you can misinform without actually lying, it's the old "We Report, You Decide") mentality. Give enough information and spin and the audience will more than likely conclude what you want them to believe. The prime example is when people start spouting percentages such as the top 5% or 47% don't pay taxes. It's all intended to misinform.
 
What exactly are you trying to show with that chart? All it does is prove what I posted, that debt went up every year of Clinton thus there was no debt reduction during his term

Conservative ask this question=(When has the Congress ever paid down any of the debt)

my answer was (I believe ti was during the Clinton years, which had a Republican majority in Congress that did something besides obstruct that did it.)

The last two years of the Clinton administration.

The debt was paid down for them two years.

12/21/1999=====5,728,801,689,365.32

01/19/2001====5,727,776,738,304.64


Here you go, play with your toy and see if you can find a couple of years of dubya that it was paid down. :roll:

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)


Now lets get back on the subject that you are so intent on dodging. Why should the bush tax-cuts not see the sunset? To me it is nothing but win,win, the country gets a hold of some of the dough that should have gone into the coffers for the last ten years. shell a bit of it out for retiring the debt, a bit more for stimulus.

Like I said in another thread, if that stimulus was used on high profile public projects, such as highway improvements, light rail with plenty of REALLY BIG SIGNS "saying this highway/rail/whatever project was paid for with your stimulus dough" it would go a long way in improving the publics confidence in the economy.

The key is lots of PR, let the public know the dough came out of …conservatives pocket. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

The problem here is that you can misinform without actually lying, it's the old "We Report, You Decide") mentality. Give enough information and spin and the audience will more than likely conclude what you want them to believe. The prime example is when people start spouting percentages such as the top 5% or 47% don't pay taxes. It's all intended to misinform.

Then straighten us out, where are we wrong? IRS seems to disagree with you. I don't expect you to ever change your mind but hopefully you will learn to think with it. Research before your spout rhetoric and do so by researching non partisan sites.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1
 
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Conservative ask this question=(When has the Congress ever paid down any of the debt)

my answer was (I believe ti was during the Clinton years, which had a Republican majority in Congress that did something besides obstruct that did it.)

The last two years of the Clinton administration.

The debt was paid down for them two years.

12/21/1999=====5,728,801,689,365.32

01/19/2001====5,727,776,738,304.64


Here you go, play with your toy and see if you can find a couple of years of dubya that it was paid down. :roll:

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)


Now lets get back on the subject that you are so intent on dodging. Why should the bush tax-cuts not see the sunset? To me it is nothing but win,win, the country gets a hold of some of the dough that should have gone into the coffers for the last ten years. shell a bit of it out for retiring the debt, a bit more for stimulus.

Like I said in another thread, if that stimulus was used on high profile public projects, such as highway improvements, light rail with plenty of REALLY BIG SIGNS "saying this highway/rail/whatever project was paid for with your stimulus dough" it would go a long way in improving the publics confidence in the economy.

The key is lots of PR, let the public know the dough came out of …conservatives pocket. :mrgreen:

So the Treasury lies? Got it.

Fiscal
Year Year
Ending National Debt Deficit
FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion
FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion
FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion
FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion
FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion
FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion
FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion
FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion
FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion

I don't see a reduction in debt at the official Treasury website. Please enlighten me.
 

You can't be a fiscal conservative and believe that renewing the Bush tax cuts is a good idea in the face of trillion dollar deficits. It's over. Time to pay up.

How can allowing the taxpayer to keep more of their own money result in borrowing more from someone else? So let's see if I have this correct, the govt. needs the money more than the American taxapayer? I cannot believe you continue to ignore the waste, fraud, and abuse of our taxdollars by politicians so now you want the American people to pay more? Your class envy is showing. What are you doing to reduce the deficit and debt?
 
So the Treasury lies? Got it.

Fiscal
Year Year
Ending National Debt Deficit
FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion
FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion
FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion
FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion
FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion
FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion
FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion
FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion
FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion

I don't see a reduction in debt at the official Treasury website. Please enlighten me.

Your original question was.

(When has the Congress ever paid down any of the debt)


my answer to your original question was
(I believe ti was during the Clinton years, which had a Republican majority in Congress that did something besides obstruct that did it.)

Then I posted this to show that for the last two years of the Clinton administration paid the the debt down.

(The last two years of the Clinton administration.

The debt was paid down for them two years.

12/21/1999=====5,728,801,689,365.32

01/19/2001====5,727,776,738,304.64)

There, maybe if you start at the top and work you way down that might help you comprehend the ...ah s***..Yep, got it…..Your reading comprehension thingy.:(
 

You can't be a fiscal conservative and believe that renewing the Bush tax cuts is a good idea in the face of trillion dollar deficits. It's over. Time to pay up.

Amazing, 3.8 trillion dollars isn't enough for a true liberal. Why not take all our money and then send back whatever the govt. deems appropriate for living expenses. Why don't you volunteer as the first one to participate in that program?
 
Your original question was.




my answer to your original question was


Then I posted this to show that for the last two years of the Clinton administration paid the the debt down.



There, maybe if you start at the top and work you way down that might help you comprehend the ...ah s***..Yep, got it…..Your reading comprehension thingy.:(

I suggest calling the U.S. Treasury Dept. and tell them that their own numbers are wrong. Let me know how that works out. Debt service is applied on the yearly debt,not the monthly debt and every year that debt service is up because the debt is up. That is how the budget process works. A reduction in debt one month doesn't a year make. the official numbers are what I posted and what the interest expense is based upon.

As has been posted there was no pay down of the debt because there was no yearly budget surplus. Even Bush had months when there was a surplus but that is the way expenses were paid.
 
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Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

The people have no power to force the government to curtail spending.


The tax breaks sunset at the end of the year as part of the law, he is not raising taxes.

sure he is-his health care scheme raises taxes. he is raising the social security ceiling as well

but tell me-if a GOP congress votes to extend the "tax breaks" (or repeal of the clinton tax hikes) do you think Obama would sign that bill or veto it.
 
Re: Dem vs Rep Tax Cut Plan in Graph form!

How did he do that with such high taxes at the time?

I guess you didn't read his post-his father wasn't one of the people hit with confiscatory tax rates by the new deal ponzi schemers

why do you libs spend so much time supporting government confiscation of the wealth of others?
 
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