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Thread: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The bigger question is what do we DO about it.
    As it stands now.. nothing since America is not willing to make the changes needed. Partisan politics, where getting into power or staying in power are more important than fixing the problem.. that is America's problem. The US will keep using outdated debunked economic theories all in the while the rich get richer, the middle class and poor get poorer and the country falls apart around your ears. If there is any blame, the it is in fact Reagan that is to blame since he started this idiotic idea that cutting taxes some how increases revenue and having massive deficits year after year is "not a problem". Remember the debt rose almost 300% under Reagan.. something people often forget.
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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    As it stands now.. nothing since America is not willing to make the changes needed. Partisan politics, where getting into power or staying in power are more important than fixing the problem.. that is America's problem. The US will keep using outdated debunked economic theories all in the while the rich get richer, the middle class and poor get poorer and the country falls apart around your ears. If there is any blame, the it is in fact Reagan that is to blame since he started this idiotic idea that cutting taxes some how increases revenue and having massive deficits year after year is "not a problem". Remember the debt rose almost 300% under Reagan.. something people often forget.
    Laughing at you for blaming a president 30 years ago on the politics and policies of both sides, including a republican controled house and senate AND a democrat controlled house and senate.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    As it stands now.. nothing since America is not willing to make the changes needed. Partisan politics, where getting into power or staying in power are more important than fixing the problem.. that is America's problem. The US will keep using outdated debunked economic theories all in the while the rich get richer, the middle class and poor get poorer and the country falls apart around your ears. If there is any blame, the it is in fact Reagan that is to blame since he started this idiotic idea that cutting taxes some how increases revenue and having massive deficits year after year is "not a problem". Remember the debt rose almost 300% under Reagan.. something people often forget.
    Would you please tell us how how the rich got richer off the backs of the middle class and the poor? What is idiotic is claiming that tax cuts do not change human behavior and that behavior unleashes consumer spending which does indeed increase tax revenue. The facts are there for you to see but you ignore it. why?

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    Well for example, one's that don't believe things that can't be debated. For example, crunch believes President Obama being president is illeagal.
    John thinks a Dual Citizen at birth can be a Natural Born Citizen.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    The numbers are staggering, no doubt. And I am pretty sure that "this ass" is not claiming the GOP is solely responsible, but that the GOP is supposed to be the more responsible party. It used to be, and I am old enough to remember those days.
    Yeah, me too..... maybe some day it will be again.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Point out when I have contradicted myself. This country's economic foundation was built on free enterprise and capitalism.
    Which you dont have in many industries today. Airlines, telecommunications, parts of healthcare, steel and so on.. just to name a few industries.

    We do not have the same problems as other countries.
    No your problems are gigantic compared to other countries. Your federal, state and local debts are huge and your personal debts are huge... and that is just the start of your problems. Your problems, make Greece look like a small pimple on the global face. Only thing you have going for you, is the fact that the dollar is a reserve currency.. if that goes away... watch out for a bumpy ride!

    Our problem is we have an Administration that is trying to change this country into what other countries supposedly have and an administration that doesn't have a clue how free enterprise works.
    Because the US needs to change. The last 20+ years of living off credit cards and re-mortgaging has to stop. You need income to rise and to live within your means, on personal, state and federal level.

    As for free enterprise... do you even know what it is?

    Increasing taxes affects human behavior.
    Not nearly as much as having insecure economic and political situations.. like massive debts, no job, rising militancy and so on. When people see that their debts and consumption are too big compared to their income, they cut back. They do not cut nearly as much back just because their taxes go up a few %. Taxes are not felt here and now, monthly debt repayments, no money in the bank and so on.. are a day to day thing.

    Obviously you do not understand the components of our economy but over 2/3 of it is consumer spending driven.
    70% is to be more exact and that causes all bunches of problems when the economy goes down the toilet. Damn hard to get people to spend more money if they are afraid of their jobs or are paying back debt instead of spending. Which is why during times like this, any tax cut will go to paying down debt, not go to spending.

    Raising taxes takes money out of the consumer's hands and that doesn't increase govt. revenue thus doesn't pay down debt.
    Eh? raising taxes does increase revenue. Now in an ideal world Government should pay down debt of course, but your governments (note the s) have a huge deficit they first have to deal with, and increasing revenue plus cutting back is the only way to go. You cant cut your deficit problems away, you have to increase taxes as well.

    Consumer spending creates demand for goods and services thus jobs to make those goods and services thus new taxpayer.
    Many expensive US consumer goods are made abroad. Note I said many, not all.

    consumer spending drives corporate profits thus higher corporate taxes.
    Corporate taxes? yea... sure. US corporations avoid taxes big time. You do know about Transfer pricing right? That many companies are officially running at a loss in the US while reporting billions in dollars in profit, and paying no taxes in the US?

    That is how you get 16 million people or a great percentage of them employed thus paying taxes. Cut taxes and cut spending, that is how you pay down the debt.
    Your taxes are already low as hell. Your spending is out of control, across the board. But the private companies are having bumper profits for the most part... Even the banks who were bailed out and General Motors are reporting profits...

    To get your 16 million (more like 20+ but hey), into work, it requires that people are confident in the future. People will not spend if they are insecure and companies will not hire if they are insecure in the future. And no, it has nothing to do with taxes per say, but more about the inability of Washington to deal with the problems and the ability of both sides to trip each other up.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Which you dont have in many industries today. Airlines, telecommunications, parts of healthcare, steel and so on.. just to name a few industries.



    No your problems are gigantic compared to other countries. Your federal, state and local debts are huge and your personal debts are huge... and that is just the start of your problems. Your problems, make Greece look like a small pimple on the global face. Only thing you have going for you, is the fact that the dollar is a reserve currency.. if that goes away... watch out for a bumpy ride!



    Because the US needs to change. The last 20+ years of living off credit cards and re-mortgaging has to stop. You need income to rise and to live within your means, on personal, state and federal level.

    As for free enterprise... do you even know what it is?



    Not nearly as much as having insecure economic and political situations.. like massive debts, no job, rising militancy and so on. When people see that their debts and consumption are too big compared to their income, they cut back. They do not cut nearly as much back just because their taxes go up a few %. Taxes are not felt here and now, monthly debt repayments, no money in the bank and so on.. are a day to day thing.



    70% is to be more exact and that causes all bunches of problems when the economy goes down the toilet. Damn hard to get people to spend more money if they are afraid of their jobs or are paying back debt instead of spending. Which is why during times like this, any tax cut will go to paying down debt, not go to spending.



    Eh? raising taxes does increase revenue. Now in an ideal world Government should pay down debt of course, but your governments (note the s) have a huge deficit they first have to deal with, and increasing revenue plus cutting back is the only way to go. You cant cut your deficit problems away, you have to increase taxes as well.



    Many expensive US consumer goods are made abroad. Note I said many, not all.



    Corporate taxes? yea... sure. US corporations avoid taxes big time. You do know about Transfer pricing right? That many companies are officially running at a loss in the US while reporting billions in dollars in profit, and paying no taxes in the US?



    Your taxes are already low as hell. Your spending is out of control, across the board. But the private companies are having bumper profits for the most part... Even the banks who were bailed out and General Motors are reporting profits...

    To get your 16 million (more like 20+ but hey), into work, it requires that people are confident in the future. People will not spend if they are insecure and companies will not hire if they are insecure in the future. And no, it has nothing to do with taxes per say, but more about the inability of Washington to deal with the problems and the ability of both sides to trip each other up.
    I don't see anything in your post that promotes individual responsibility nor anything there that offers any solutions. People have a lot more confidence in the future when they get to keep more of what they earn thus they need less of that so called help that liberals offer. This country grew to the top and has a 14 trillion dollar economy because of the foundation upon which it was built, a foundation that Obama is doing his best to destroy. Nothing he has done promotes the private sector or job creation. Tell me how raising taxes makes people more confident in the future and will put 16 million people back to work?

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Would you please tell us how how the rich got richer off the backs of the middle class and the poor?
    Common knowledge. The rich in the US have had their average income increase considerably the last 30 years, relatively to the rest. Your own census bureau has all the statistics, not to mention many sites concerned by the income inequality in the US.

    What is idiotic is claiming that tax cuts do not change human behavior and that behavior unleashes consumer spending which does indeed increase tax revenue. The facts are there for you to see but you ignore it. why?
    Tax cuts do not change human behaviour if the economic situation is dire, which it is now. All it does is increase an already huge deficit. People will still not return to buying because they are sitting in houses they cant afford, and have huge debts they have to pay back and they cant get new credit because the banks are not giving out loans. So unless you are going to cut taxes considerably.. we talking by 20%+ then it wont matter a damn thing, and it still if you did cut taxes by 20%+ mean that the deficit would skyrocket at least of a brief period.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I don't see anything in your post that promotes individual responsibility nor anything there that offers any solutions. People have a lot more confidence in the future when they get to keep more of what they earn thus they need less of that so called help that liberals offer. This country grew to the top and has a 14 trillion dollar economy because of the foundation upon which it was built, a foundation that Obama is doing his best to destroy. Nothing he has done promotes the private sector or job creation. Tell me how raising taxes makes people more confident in the future and will put 16 million people back to work?
    Promotes individual responsibility? You do know that is what got you into the problem in the first place right? It was the lazzie-faire attitude of personal responsibility that allowed predatory lending and worse, which in turn caused the deck of cards to fall down in 2007. How did Greenspan put it... we thought the industry would police it self.. yea right!

    As for solutions.. I have stated many times on these boards, that the US needs its spending under control at all levels but that requires a political reform that no one is willing to do. Money needs to be taken out of politics, so that companies and individuals dont see the US government as a bottomless pit of money they can suck dry. Transparency and accountability at all levels is a must as well. We cant have former CEOs running government when their former companies get billions from the Government in contracts.. just one of many transparency issues.. or another classic.. a congressman that gets pork for a library in his district, that is employing his own daughter... talk about a stinker..

    When that is done, then you can start to tackle the hard things, like cutting your military down considerably.. mothballing the Marines for example, and tackling the no bid contracts to the insane prices your military pays for things.

    And then tackling the corporatism that has infected your society, by taking down big business that has been screwing the people for decades now, which has resulted in defacto monopolies and cartels. You could start with big pharma and the healthcare industry.. how about making that a competitive market for one?

    And then there is your tax code.. plugging the holes that special interest groups (usually very wealthy) have been able to punch in the tax code to avoid paying any taxes, would be a start.

    There is no simple solution, but as long as the right lives in the past and can only say no, and the left is scared of its own shadow, then nothing will ever change and that is playing right into the hands of the people who created the problems you are in now and might I say.. made a killing doing it.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Common knowledge. The rich in the US have had their average income increase considerably the last 30 years, relatively to the rest. Your own census bureau has all the statistics, not to mention many sites concerned by the income inequality in the US.
    That doesn't answer the question, how did the rich getting richer hurt the poor? You seem to believe that we have a zero sum economy here where someone gets rich at the detriment of someone else. Instead of focusing on what the rich make why don't you focus on why the poor remain poor after all that liberal social engineering. Why aren't you concerned about the lack of incentive the poor have for improving their own stake in life.


    Tax cuts do not change human behaviour if the economic situation is dire, which it is now. All it does is increase an already huge deficit. People will still not return to buying because they are sitting in houses they cant afford, and have huge debts they have to pay back and they cant get new credit because the banks are not giving out loans. So unless you are going to cut taxes considerably.. we talking by 20%+ then it wont matter a damn thing, and it still if you did cut taxes by 20%+ mean that the deficit would skyrocket at least of a brief period.
    So let's see, you keeping more of what you earn by having your take home pay go up doesn't change your behavior? How does people keeping more of their money create deficits as I don't see tax cuts as a line item on the Treasury expense list. Spending always has and always will cause debt, not tax cuts. Raising taxes isn't going to put 16 million people back to work or improve economic growth. Cut taxes 20%, I support that and if you did you would see the most massive growth in the U.S. economy in history. Reagan did it, 10-10-5% cuts, and doubled GDP as well as income tax revenue, how did that happen

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