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Thread: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberhwk View Post
    Couple reasons. First of all, Conservatives are correct in that raising taxes during a recession is not a good idea. Trying to balance the budget (specifically in 1937) probably extended the Great Depression longer than it should have been. Spending is the fuel that runs the economy and money paying down debt is money NOT being spent (the reason we went with smaller tax cuts this time instead of $600 checks like last time). So maybe abolishing them all may be a good idea, but just not NOW.

    Second, there's question on whether or not adding additonal taxes, or taking away existing taxes have the same effect. Mathematically, sure, but humans don't always act as mathematical models would suggest.

    Three, politics (I know, big surprise, huh?). It's easy to raise taxes on a small amount of rich people that weren't going to vote for you anyway than raise taxes on the entire population that will. In fact it's even POPULAR!
    So you agree that it is a bad idea to raise taxes, if they are not yours. Remember no one talked about balancing the budget this is less than 25% of the deficit.

    I thought we were out of the recession, but let's say we are not. Then I guess what yo would recommend is to hold off on changing this tax cut for 2-3 years.

    Lastly, not that partisans care but the top 5% of earners make up 30% of consmer spending. So I guess let's not have good economic policy get in the way of more cheap politics.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    So you agree that it is a bad idea to raise taxes, if they are not yours. Remember no one talked about balancing the budget this is less than 25% of the deficit.

    I thought we were out of the recession, but let's say we are not. Then I guess what yo would recommend is to hold off on changing this tax cut for 2-3 years.

    Lastly, not that partisans care but the top 5% of earners make up 30% of consmer spending. So I guess let's not have good economic policy get in the way of more cheap politics.
    It really gets frustrating arguing with people about the value of keeping more of what they earn which leads me to believe I am arguing with people included in the group that doesn't pay any income taxes. There is no logic by anyone who pays taxes to support raising their taxes especially when the waste, fraud, and abuse of our taxdollars is prevalent at the Federal level.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It really gets frustrating arguing with people about the value of keeping more of what they earn which leads me to believe I am arguing with people included in the group that doesn't pay any income taxes. There is no logic by anyone who pays taxes to support raising their taxes especially when the waste, fraud, and abuse of our taxdollars is prevalent at the Federal level.
    I pay materially more in taxes than the average American earns. That being said, the country is in a mess. We can't get out of it with spending cuts alone. So like it or not taxes of some sort have to rise. I am frustrated when people use the line of waste, fraud and abuse. Yes that exists. It has existed for decades. So I say get this budget close to balance and if you find a way to get more cost out of the budget lower taxes. But stop spending my son's money becuse this generation wants to live beyond it's means.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I pay materially more in taxes than the average American earns. That being said, the country is in a mess. We can't get out of it with spending cuts alone. So like it or not taxes of some sort have to rise. I am frustrated when people use the line of waste, fraud and abuse. Yes that exists. It has existed for decades. So I say get this budget close to balance and if you find a way to get more cost out of the budget lower taxes. But stop spending my son's money becuse this generation wants to live beyond it's means.
    You know, I have no interest in sending more money to D.C. until they get their act together and show some fiscal responsibility. All that social engineering plays the "feelings" of the public and totally ignores the role of personal responsibility in people's lives. The intent of our Founders was never to be a "parent" to the American people and that is what liberalism has become. We have spent trillions to eradicate poverty, drugs, etc. and what do we have to show for it. It has been all wasted, costing more than intended, doing less than intended, and never solving a problem. Most of it is waste, fraud, and abuse.

    Anyone that promotes sending more money in this environment is a fool.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You know, I have no interest in sending more money to D.C. until they get their act together and show some fiscal responsibility. All that social engineering plays the "feelings" of the public and totally ignores the role of personal responsibility in people's lives. The intent of our Founders was never to be a "parent" to the American people and that is what liberalism has become. We have spent trillions to eradicate poverty, drugs, etc. and what do we have to show for it. It has been all wasted, costing more than intended, doing less than intended, and never solving a problem. Most of it is waste, fraud, and abuse.

    Anyone that promotes sending more money in this environment is a fool.
    I promote paying by bills. This country elected the knuckleheads running the government and pissing our money away. That being the case the country has to pay the tab. Who do you think shold pay the bill of this government? Why do you think it is moral to spend a lot of money then say send the bills to my kids, who did not spend the money.

    People get the government they deserve. They voted these people in, now they have to pay for their actions.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I promote paying by bills. This country elected the knuckleheads running the government and pissing our money away. That being the case the country has to pay the tab. Who do you think shold pay the bill of this government? Why do you think it is moral to spend a lot of money then say send the bills to my kids, who did not spend the money.

    People get the government they deserve. They voted these people in, now they have to pay for their actions.
    there is some value to what you say but the govt. has to make the first step, show some fiscal responsibility then I have no problem helping out but to send taxdollars to D.C. and to these "knuckleheads" is totally irresponsible to the taxpayer. Stop the damn spending and if not declare bankruptcy and start over. This is BS! Think they are going to change without a taxpayer revolt? Anyone supporting tax increases to this govt. simply is either a govt. employee or totally out of touch with reality.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It really gets frustrating arguing with people about the value of keeping more of what they earn which leads me to believe I am arguing with people included in the group that doesn't pay any income taxes. There is no logic by anyone who pays taxes to support raising their taxes especially when the waste, fraud, and abuse of our taxdollars is prevalent at the Federal level.
    The problem with giving govt less money to spend is that they just spend more money anyway.....
    Until we force the federal level to operate on balanced budgets, we are doomed to increase national debt..
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    The problem with giving govt less money to spend is that they just spend more money anyway.....
    Until we force the federal level to operate on balanced budgets, we are doomed to increase national debt..
    Exactly, but the problem remains, 16 million unemployed people and the way to get them back to work is not through tax increases.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    You are correct tax breaks will never pay for themselves and do not stimulate job growth either.
    The following graphs show the failure of supply side economics. Which GHWB dubbed Voodoo economics when he was fighting for the nomination against Reagan.

    Those graphs only show that Clinton was lucky to take over the reigns at a time of strong growth.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Exactly, but the problem remains, 16 million unemployed people and the way to get them back to work is not through tax increases.
    So what you're saying is.

    Decrease the deficit! - But don't try and raise revenue to pay for it!

    Get everyone hired Obama - But don't use public money to do it, even if private enterprise won't hire, but I'll still blame you for it anyway.

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