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Thread: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Our tax revenue has been less than our spending for a long time. Now, who brought down our tax revenue? Hmmm....
    It's Obama's fault.
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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Oh, for cripe's sake. What Richard Cohen or Molly Ivins column did you pull that from?
    Sorry but I don't know who those people are. I'm talking about people and politicans I personally have known in life.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    It's difficult for me to read the article in the OP and not be angry at the condition this country finds itself in today from the political party that's screaming such things as "unconstitutional, tyranny, nationalization, redistribution of wealth and liberty" while also smiling in the face of average Americans telling them not to trust in the party led by a man who has shown the courage to tackle the issues the opposition has completely and utterly ignored for well over 25 years!! Think about that for a moment...

    I've been interested in politics since my high school years. Reagan was President when I graduated. Thus, the politics and long-term affects of Reaganomics didn't register to me back then. But over the years and little by little, I've become a student of politics especially within the last three years, and the more I learn of the power grab and of how disporportioned the economic imbalance has become between "the haves and the have nots" in this country, the louder I scream at the top of my lungs "don't believe the hype" the Republican Party is trying to feed this country especially now.

    If people would just open their eyes and stop listening to the talking heads or certain aspects of the media for that matter and begin to look back at history and learn...just learn...for themselves where this country once was before all the white noise got so loud, so distorted and politicians stopped working for US and began to lookout for themselves AND their lobbyist/Corporate friends and how so many social-economic issues that affect so many of us on a daily basis have been so widely ignored for so long, they'd be angry, outraged! But more important, they'd wake the hell up and realize not everything they hear is exactly as they've been told.

    It's not that I didn't know about some of the things that have occurred on the political scene over the years. I mean, who doesn't know about Iran-Contra, the fall of the Berlin wall, Desert Storm, Monica Lewinski, Al Quaida, WMD and many of the other so-called "political issues" that have affected this country over the last 25 years or so. But how many of us know the intimate details behind the storylines, i.e., how the banking industry was absolved of their government oversight obligation because someone in government decided it was a smart move to deregulate this industry and remove the very checks and balances that were implimented in the wake of the Great Depression for the sole purpose of preventing the economic collapse our nation currently find ourselves in today? Rules that were put in place that were designed to prevent the very "creative financing schemes" concocted on Wall Street and the extreme risk within our banking system taken at the expense of the taxpaying consumer who is now taking it on the chin day, after day, after day, finding it extremely difficult to put food on the table while certain politicians stand back and instead of standing on the sidelines laying blame against the party that said, "Yes, We Can," while also consistently saying, "NO, We're Not!!! going to do a damned thing to help pull this country out of the gutter but instead will let it go still further into the toilet until our side can regains power to once again do whatever the hell we want"... Is that the government this country truly wants...again? They may claim they're for "what's right for America," but what political faction has the gull to be so two-faced on nearly every issue over the last 18 months secretly compromising on some issue while publically claiming their ideas have been rejected while also voting "NO" just so the public can "see" that they're upholding their political idealogical values all in the name of democracy and upholding the Constitution, the very document their party has subverted far more than the Democrat party over the last 40 years!? Can you say "military and judicial power grab via executive orders and signing statements?"

    The linked article in the OP speaks of the exact issues I've discussed with my friends, neighbors, family and coworkers since before the 2008 Presidential primaries began. Tax cuts, for example, may stimulate the economy but they don't pay for themselves - never have and never will - and they should never be allowed to remain in place for so long across the economic spectrum particularly when one side of the tax bracket receives a much larger break than another for as long as they've been allowed and used as a replacement for the overall tax base. Those who believe in this form of "taxation" would have one believe that as long as people are working the government will generate revenue. While this may be true to an extent, the problem is that the so-called revenue is being spent faster than it can be generated. And while Republican are saying "the deficit is out of control," which one of them is willing to cut any portion of the social or government programs they claim are increasing the national debt at such historic levels?

    One example of just such an absordity is Medicare. We've been told Medicare takes up nearly 1/3 of the national budget, but when some in government have tried to modify the health care system in such a way they believe will address the health care and health insurance issues that have negatively affected Americans across the economic divide to bring down the cost not only of Medicare but health care in general, those in opposition balk at making any positive changes that can reduce the cost in meaningful ways. Does this make sense to you? To leave a health care system in place that's costing the country millions, if not billions, for so few? You could make the same argument for many other social programs, i.e., Medicaid, Welfare, Pell Grants, etc., but until you're willing to tackle the problem head-on instead of looking out for your own political career as well as your position of power while retaining that lobbyist in your hip pocket, nothing meaningful ever gets changed!!! Still, I would much rather elect someone to political office who is willing to tackle the problems in this country - problems that have been ignored for years and years and years, problems I took stock of in my youth that have only increased in severity as I've neared middle-age - than to place someone in power whose party affiliation has done nothing more than give lip-service to the issues and will grab power in the same subversive ways the moment they get back in the White House.

    I'm sorry, Republicans. There's just no way any one of you would get my vote at a time our nation's is hemmiraging on so many levela while listening to you spin the problems injecting fear at every turn instead of working with the party that legitimately gained control of Congress and the White House and are trying to do something to turn things around. We didn't get in this mess overnight. It took years for our economy to get this way. It's going to take years to turn things around. But at this moment in our nation's history, I cannot in good faith vote a Republican into office. I just don't think they have a plan to restore this country to greatness. But they'll definitely look out for their own selve interests again if given the chance to take back Congress and the White House.

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    joke Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    It's Obama's fault.
    Curse you, Obama!!! You and your damned time machine!!!

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    Sorry but I don't know who those people are. I'm talking about people and politicans I personally have known in life.
    Dude, you're recycling a line that was old before you were born.

    Liberals love to talk about how much better yesterday's Republicans/conservatives were. Always will.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Dude, you're recycling a line that was old before you were born.

    Liberals love to talk about how much better yesterday's Republicans/conservatives were.
    Dude, isn't that exactly what this article is about? It ain't just liberals saying it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw
    Always will.
    I hope not, but I fear so.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    It's difficult for me to read the article in the OP and not be angry at the condition this country finds itself in today from the political party that's screaming such things as "unconstitutional, tyranny, nationalization, redistribution of wealth and liberty" while also smiling in the face of average Americans telling them not to trust in the party led by a man who has shown the courage to tackle the issues the opposition has completely and utterly ignored for well over 25 years!! Think about that for a moment...

    I've been interested in politics since my high school years. Reagan was President when I graduated. Thus, the politics and long-term affects of Reaganomics didn't register to me back then. But over the years and little by little, I've become a student of politics especially within the last three years, and the more I learn of the power grab and of how disporportioned the economic imbalance has become between "the haves and the have nots" in this country, the louder I scream at the top of my lungs "don't believe the hype" the Republican Party is trying to feed this country especially now.

    If people would just open their eyes and stop listening to the talking heads or certain aspects of the media for that matter and begin to look back at history and learn...just learn...for themselves where this country once was before all the white noise got so loud, so distorted and politicians stopped working for US and began to lookout for themselves AND their lobbyist/Corporate friends and how so many social-economic issues that affect so many of us on a daily basis have been so widely ignored for so long, they'd be angry, outraged! But more important, they'd wake the hell up and realize not everything they hear is exactly as they've been told.

    It's not that I didn't know about some of the things that have occurred on the political scene over the years. I mean, who doesn't know about Iran-Contra, the fall of the Berlin wall, Desert Storm, Monica Lewinski, Al Quaida, WMD and many of the other so-called "political issues" that have affected this country over the last 25 years or so. But how many of us know the intimate details behind the storylines, i.e., how the banking industry was absolved of their government oversight obligation because someone in government decided it was a smart move to deregulate this industry and remove the very checks and balances that were implimented in the wake of the Great Depression for the sole purpose of preventing the economic collapse our nation currently find ourselves in today? Rules that were put in place that were designed to prevent the very "creative financing schemes" concocted on Wall Street and the extreme risk within our banking system taken at the expense of the taxpaying consumer who is now taking it on the chin day, after day, after day, finding it extremely difficult to put food on the table while certain politicians stand back and instead of standing on the sidelines laying blame against the party that said, "Yes, We Can," while also consistently saying, "NO, We're Not!!! going to do a damned thing to help pull this country out of the gutter but instead will let it go still further into the toilet until our side can regains power to once again do whatever the hell we want"... Is that the government this country truly wants...again? They may claim they're for "what's right for America," but what political faction has the gull to be so two-faced on nearly every issue over the last 18 months secretly compromising on some issue while publically claiming their ideas have been rejected while also voting "NO" just so the public can "see" that they're upholding their political idealogical values all in the name of democracy and upholding the Constitution, the very document their party has subverted far more than the Democrat party over the last 40 years!? Can you say "military and judicial power grab via executive orders and signing statements?"

    The linked article in the OP speaks of the exact issues I've discussed with my friends, neighbors, family and coworkers since before the 2008 Presidential primaries began. Tax cuts, for example, may stimulate the economy but they don't pay for themselves - never have and never will - and they should never be allowed to remain in place for so long across the economic spectrum particularly when one side of the tax bracket receives a much larger break than another for as long as they've been allowed and used as a replacement for the overall tax base. Those who believe in this form of "taxation" would have one believe that as long as people are working the government will generate revenue. While this may be true to an extent, the problem is that the so-called revenue is being spent faster than it can be generated. And while Republican are saying "the deficit is out of control," which one of them is willing to cut any portion of the social or government programs they claim are increasing the national debt at such historic levels?

    One example of just such an absordity is Medicare. We've been told Medicare takes up nearly 1/3 of the national budget, but when some in government have tried to modify the health care system in such a way they believe will address the health care and health insurance issues that have negatively affected Americans across the economic divide to bring down the cost not only of Medicare but health care in general, those in opposition balk at making any positive changes that can reduce the cost in meaningful ways. Does this make sense to you? To leave a health care system in place that's costing the country millions, if not billions, for so few? You could make the same argument for many other social programs, i.e., Medicaid, Welfare, Pell Grants, etc., but until you're willing to tackle the problem head-on instead of looking out for your own political career as well as your position of power while retaining that lobbyist in your hip pocket, nothing meaningful ever gets changed!!! Still, I would much rather elect someone to political office who is willing to tackle the problems in this country - problems that have been ignored for years and years and years, problems I took stock of in my youth that have only increased in severity as I've neared middle-age - than to place someone in power whose party affiliation has done nothing more than give lip-service to the issues and will grab power in the same subversive ways the moment they get back in the White House.

    I'm sorry, Republicans. There's just no way any one of you would get my vote at a time our nation's is hemmiraging on so many levela while listening to you spin the problems injecting fear at every turn instead of working with the party that legitimately gained control of Congress and the White House and are trying to do something to turn things around. We didn't get in this mess overnight. It took years for our economy to get this way. It's going to take years to turn things around. But at this moment in our nation's history, I cannot in good faith vote a Republican into office. I just don't think they have a plan to restore this country to greatness. But they'll definitely look out for their own selve interests again if given the chance to take back Congress and the White House.
    Objective Voice, you are a man who should be running for public office, if you can bring yourself to wallow in the mud with the political pigs long enough to get elected....
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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Befuddled_Stoner View Post
    Dude, isn't that exactly what this article is about? It ain't just liberals saying it.
    Yeah, and Stockman was one of the biggest conservative villains ever, according to the left. Until he started saying things they wanted to hear. (Not that those on the right don't love the opposite; of course they do.)

    Too, a number of the things he cites as problems are things the left are generally for.


    I hope not, but I fear so.
    It will be so.
    Last edited by Harshaw; 08-14-10 at 11:10 AM. Reason: sp
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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    It's difficult for me to read the article in the OP and not be angry at the condition this country finds itself in today from the political party that's screaming such things as "unconstitutional, tyranny, nationalization, redistribution of wealth and liberty" while also smiling in the face of average Americans telling them not to trust in the party led by a man who has shown the courage to tackle the issues the opposition has completely and utterly ignored for well over 25 years!! Think about that for a moment...

    I've been interested in politics since my high school years. Reagan was President when I graduated. Thus, the politics and long-term affects of Reaganomics didn't register to me back then. But over the years and little by little, I've become a student of politics especially within the last three years, and the more I learn of the power grab and of how disporportioned the economic imbalance has become between "the haves and the have nots" in this country, the louder I scream at the top of my lungs "don't believe the hype" the Republican Party is trying to feed this country especially now.

    If people would just open their eyes and stop listening to the talking heads or certain aspects of the media for that matter and begin to look back at history and learn...just learn...for themselves where this country once was before all the white noise got so loud, so distorted and politicians stopped working for US and began to lookout for themselves AND their lobbyist/Corporate friends and how so many social-economic issues that affect so many of us on a daily basis have been so widely ignored for so long, they'd be angry, outraged! But more important, they'd wake the hell up and realize not everything they hear is exactly as they've been told.

    It's not that I didn't know about some of the things that have occurred on the political scene over the years. I mean, who doesn't know about Iran-Contra, the fall of the Berlin wall, Desert Storm, Monica Lewinski, Al Quaida, WMD and many of the other so-called "political issues" that have affected this country over the last 25 years or so. But how many of us know the intimate details behind the storylines, i.e., how the banking industry was absolved of their government oversight obligation because someone in government decided it was a smart move to deregulate this industry and remove the very checks and balances that were implimented in the wake of the Great Depression for the sole purpose of preventing the economic collapse our nation currently find ourselves in today? Rules that were put in place that were designed to prevent the very "creative financing schemes" concocted on Wall Street and the extreme risk within our banking system taken at the expense of the taxpaying consumer who is now taking it on the chin day, after day, after day, finding it extremely difficult to put food on the table while certain politicians stand back and instead of standing on the sidelines laying blame against the party that said, "Yes, We Can," while also consistently saying, "NO, We're Not!!! going to do a damned thing to help pull this country out of the gutter but instead will let it go still further into the toilet until our side can regains power to once again do whatever the hell we want"... Is that the government this country truly wants...again? They may claim they're for "what's right for America," but what political faction has the gull to be so two-faced on nearly every issue over the last 18 months secretly compromising on some issue while publically claiming their ideas have been rejected while also voting "NO" just so the public can "see" that they're upholding their political idealogical values all in the name of democracy and upholding the Constitution, the very document their party has subverted far more than the Democrat party over the last 40 years!? Can you say "military and judicial power grab via executive orders and signing statements?"

    The linked article in the OP speaks of the exact issues I've discussed with my friends, neighbors, family and coworkers since before the 2008 Presidential primaries began. Tax cuts, for example, may stimulate the economy but they don't pay for themselves - never have and never will - and they should never be allowed to remain in place for so long across the economic spectrum particularly when one side of the tax bracket receives a much larger break than another for as long as they've been allowed and used as a replacement for the overall tax base. Those who believe in this form of "taxation" would have one believe that as long as people are working the government will generate revenue. While this may be true to an extent, the problem is that the so-called revenue is being spent faster than it can be generated. And while Republican are saying "the deficit is out of control," which one of them is willing to cut any portion of the social or government programs they claim are increasing the national debt at such historic levels?

    One example of just such an absordity is Medicare. We've been told Medicare takes up nearly 1/3 of the national budget, but when some in government have tried to modify the health care system in such a way they believe will address the health care and health insurance issues that have negatively affected Americans across the economic divide to bring down the cost not only of Medicare but health care in general, those in opposition balk at making any positive changes that can reduce the cost in meaningful ways. Does this make sense to you? To leave a health care system in place that's costing the country millions, if not billions, for so few? You could make the same argument for many other social programs, i.e., Medicaid, Welfare, Pell Grants, etc., but until you're willing to tackle the problem head-on instead of looking out for your own political career as well as your position of power while retaining that lobbyist in your hip pocket, nothing meaningful ever gets changed!!! Still, I would much rather elect someone to political office who is willing to tackle the problems in this country - problems that have been ignored for years and years and years, problems I took stock of in my youth that have only increased in severity as I've neared middle-age - than to place someone in power whose party affiliation has done nothing more than give lip-service to the issues and will grab power in the same subversive ways the moment they get back in the White House.

    I'm sorry, Republicans. There's just no way any one of you would get my vote at a time our nation's is hemmiraging on so many levela while listening to you spin the problems injecting fear at every turn instead of working with the party that legitimately gained control of Congress and the White House and are trying to do something to turn things around. We didn't get in this mess overnight. It took years for our economy to get this way. It's going to take years to turn things around. But at this moment in our nation's history, I cannot in good faith vote a Republican into office. I just don't think they have a plan to restore this country to greatness. But they'll definitely look out for their own selve interests again if given the chance to take back Congress and the White House.
    OV, there is much in this post that I agree with but you ruined it at the end when you imply that anyone should be working with this Administration to implement the agenda it is actually implementing with only leftwing support. There are indeed problems in this country and quite frankly I would kick all the bums out of D.C. and start over. There is nothing in the President's economic policy that I believe in and IMO the party of "NO" should be the party of "Hell NO!"

    I make no bones about being a Conservative. I used to be a Conservative Democrat until the Democrat Party left me. I supported Reagan and still do today. Reagan understood the American people and his economic policy of 10-10-5 tax cuts drove liberals crazy because it put money back into the hands of the taxpayer(American people) and liberals seem to hate that.

    I recognize that the Reagan Administration wasn't perfect and had its problems but one of those problems was NOT implementation of his income tax policy. Reagan presents a stark contrast to Obama. Reagan took office with rising unemployment, high inflation, high mortgage rates, and a Democrat Congress. He had to fight that Democrat Congress for his tax cuts and took his message right to the American people. It was the American people that put pressure on the Congress to pass his tax cuts and the results are something liberals want to ignore, doubling of income tax revenue, doubling of GDP, 18 million jobs created. Unfortunately what liberals want to point to is the 1.7 trillion debt that was created during the Reagan years totally ignoring why that debt occurred.

    Now I don't want to rehash the Reagan/Obama debate because that is ongoing on another thread but I do want to point out the total arrogance of Obama compared to the approach Reagan took. Why anyone would want Obama to succeed with his economic policy is beyond me. Obama's massive growth in the size of govt. where taxpayers have to pay their salaries and benefits, is beyond me.

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb-0605-35.pdf

    His massive growth in debt is setting deficit records and his lack of focus on the private sector is quite telling. In two years Obama has added 3 trillion to the debt, shown a reduction of 4 million in employment, and an increase in 3 million unemployed since his stimulus plan was passed. None of this was supported by the Republicans and rightly so. why does anyone support that record and agenda that created those numbers.

    As stated I am a conservative, not a Republican, and believe that Republicans spent too much when in power. Fact is however Democrats took total control of Congress in January 2007 and put GOP spending on steroids, blame Republicans for it, and get away with that rhetoric. Whether or not there will be a lot of difference when the Republicans get back in power this fall is unknown but what is known is that the current Obama economic plan is unsustainable and going against the will of the people.

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    Re: Reagan Insider on how the GOP, and Dems Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I suppose the poor sap will soon be labeled a disgruntled former staffer who really wasn't of much importance. The GOP is good at throwing party dissidents under the bus.
    If you read Stockman's piece, you'll see that the Republicans have no incentive to do that. The link in the OP is merely an interpretation of Stockman's piece. Stockman criticized the Republicans for becoming too similar to the Democrats and not sticking with their conservative principles.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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