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Thread: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I believe strongly in a strict interpretation of the Constitution. That has always been the traditional definition of Conservatism. That some people today, who call themselves Conservative, are attempting to blur that line doesn't change it, nor does it make them Conservative.
    Seems to me, that your view of conservatism differs from MrV's in this sense: MrV would be more active in having his positions supported, as he sees these positions as affecting more than the individual, and he sees the opposing positions as affecting him. Your position would be to NOT be active in pushing these positions, as you do not see your positions as affecting others... if the Constitution is strictly followed, and you do not see opposing positions as affecting you. Does that make sense?
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  2. #72
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Seems to me, that your view of conservatism differs from MrV's in this sense: MrV would be more active in having his positions supported, as he sees these positions as affecting more than the individual, and he sees the opposing positions as affecting him. Your position would be to NOT be active in pushing these positions, as you do not see your positions as affecting others... if the Constitution is strictly followed, and you do not see opposing positions as affecting you. Does that make sense?
    Pretty much so. There are many issues where Mr. V and I agree. The 2nd Amendment, for one. Bush's pick for judges. Reckless spending by the government. But we differ on issues where I would consider him to be authoritarian, such as gay marriage and abortion.

    If a Constitutional amendment were passed that outlawed gay marriage, I would believe it to be wrong, and would argue the opposition, but to me, that would be Constitutional, and I would accept it. On abortion, I am in favor of overturning Roe v. Wade. So is Mr. V. However, my reasoning is that the 10th Amendment gives the power whether or not to have abortion to the states. I believe that Mr. V would be in favor of a law outlawing abortion in all 50 states, which I believe would be unconstitutional. I could be wrong about Mr. V on this though, so I will let him speak for himself.
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    OK... I can understand that. And that seems to be a difference between your brand of conservatism and the brand I hear from libertarians. Your brand seems to be more active. Would you say that is correct?
    Yes, more... active would be appropriate.
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Pretty much so. There are many issues where Mr. V and I agree. The 2nd Amendment, for one. Bush's pick for judges. Reckless spending by the government. But we differ on issues where I would consider him to be authoritarian, such as gay marriage and abortion.

    If a Constitutional amendment were passed that outlawed gay marriage, I would believe it to be wrong, and would argue the opposition, but to me, that would be Constitutional, and I would accept it. On abortion, I am in favor of overturning Roe v. Wade. So is Mr. V. However, my reasoning is that the 10th Amendment gives the power whether or not to have abortion to the states. I believe that Mr. V would be in favor of a law outlawing abortion in all 50 states, which I believe would be unconstitutional. I could be wrong about Mr. V on this though, so I will let him speak for himself.
    I've stated I am not AGAINST Gay Marriage, just against it right now. On principle.

    And I stated I am 100% in agreement with you on Roe Vs. Wade, it's a STATES issue. I've always had that stance.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Now if there was a push to outlaw homosexuality, I'd be 110% in the streets against that.
    You live in Texas? Here is your chance...

    Texas GOP Platform: Re-Criminalize Sodomy, Make Gay Marriage a Felony -- Signs of the Times News

    Glad to have your support against the Texas GOP.

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I have plenty of reason!
    Well let us see your "reasoning"...

    First you used an appeal to tradition fallacy arguing that it is right to impose a definition of marriage that does not include same sex couples because it is tradition to do so.

    Then you used an appeal to the majority fallacy to argue that it is right to impose a definition of marriage that does no include same sex couples because the majority in several states have done so. You kinda forgot to explain why Constitutional rights should be up for a vote to begin with, but I'm sure you are getting to that point.

    Then you used a straw man to argue that anyone who supports a definition of marriage that includes same sex couples must also accept a definition of marriage that includes pedophilia.

    I think you are just angry this issue was taken to court where real rational and evidence is needed to make a case. You cannot make a good case, so you have to use these fallacies and emotional appeals to justify imposing your view on others.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 08-10-10 at 08:30 PM.

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You live in Texas? Here is your chance...

    Texas GOP Platform: Re-Criminalize Sodomy, Make Gay Marriage a Felony -- Signs of the Times News

    Glad to have your support against the Texas GOP.
    One plank, they'll never pass it for crying out loud.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Dan... you sound a bit more like a Goldwater conservative. In today's world, that would be closer to the libertarian position, wouldn't it?
    I think the newly defined "conservatives," of today, most likely would consider a Goldwater conservative, in it purest form, a tree-hugging liberal.

    But that's ONLY if the masses accept their claim they (present day "conservatives") are, in fact, conservatives. I, for one, do not. I have long held the opinion that they (new day conservatives) have hijacked the label and aren't much more than gypsies in the palace.

    I consider Dana to be a conservative as conservatism was supposed be. Back when it was honorable.
    Last edited by Captain America; 08-10-10 at 11:34 PM.

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    I really don't see how you're going to get "tree-hugging liberal" out of Goldwater. You could only do that if you don't know anything about political philosophy, and that would be from being a dumbass, not from being any "new" kind of conservative. Dumbass knows no political movement.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I really don't see how you're going to get "tree-hugging liberal" out of Goldwater. You could only do that if you don't know anything about political philosophy, and that would be from being a dumbass, not from being any "new" kind of conservative. Dumbass knows no political movement.
    Just an excuse to attack "Conservatives" that have zero desire to make nice with liberals.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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