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Thread: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Who says they abuse children? That's just your MORALITY being forced on them, you values.

    How about Polygamy Dan? Eh? You haven't answered that one, it's coming next and everyone knows it.
    1) Again, as in many times already, my point has flown way over your head. Children do not have the capacity nor the ability to consent. Therefore it IS child abuse.

    2) I have given my position on polygamy time and time again in this thread, and in other threads. My position is clear. If you are too lazy to read my response, that is your own responsibility, not mine.
    Last edited by danarhea; 08-10-10 at 06:43 PM.
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, I DO have social values. However, I recognize that it is not my place to force those values on others, nor is it the duty of the government to do the same. It is something that is in God's hands alone. What we have here is a group of people that wants to legislate morality. They are the ones pointing out the motes in other people's eyes, while ignoring the beam in their own eye. They are also the ones Christ was referring to when he said that there was a special place in hell, reserved just for the hypocrites.
    Dan... you sound a bit more like a Goldwater conservative. In today's world, that would be closer to the libertarian position, wouldn't it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I don't think there is a conflict, cap.

    Personally, I feel that believing in traditional social values does not mean the same thing as campaigning for traditional social values to be enforced throughout society.

    For me, the first rule of conservative ideology is that when one seeks to promote a certain type of belief system, they do so through personal action and strict adherence to their own value system.

    I have no doubt that many people here would say I'm a "social liberal", but I feel that I embody traditional social values in my everyday life. I just don't believe it is the government's job to enforce these values, nor is it my job to demonize those who do not live by these values.
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Dan put it nicely below Cap, but I'll try to explain things as I see them. I'm a conservative who has a specific moral code that I follow, but I am a true conservative or rather classic liberal. No matter what I personally feel I follow the constitution first and foremost and that trumps any other agendas(well, it should anyway). That being said I don't see any compelling interest in government regulation of marriage on the religious level since that is a recognized right within our founding document, if we're being honest any civil unions including secular marriage would have to fall under equal protections so government technically still wouldn't have the right to discriminate. All of that trumps any religious views I may have as I believe that standing up for something I don't believe in protects my own rights(I'm neutral on gay marriage).

    I think that a lot of people including some conservatives have a narrow view of conservatism and much of that has to do with the religious right taking over the movement and the RINOs as well. Conservatism is relatively flexible and has a very broad spectrum of views with one being more predominantly presented and unfortunately the most rigid one is the one most see.

    Nailed it!
    The two of you, also sound more like libertarians. I was never a fan of Goldwater. Would you say that your views are similar to his?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Dan... you sound a bit more like a Goldwater conservative. In today's world, that would be closer to the libertarian position, wouldn't it?
    I grew up a Goldwater Conservative. I actually met him once, when I was young, and got to shake his hand. I would say that had a definite influence on my political beliefs.

    To answer your question, I would call myself a Conservative with some Libertarian leanings. Not a complete Libertarian, though.
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    And just as an aside... I am recusing myself from any GM debate on this thread. I've done this dance quite a bit, lately. I'm more interested in hearing different perspectives on conservatism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I grew up a Goldwater Conservative. I actually met him once, when I was young, and got to shake his hand. I would say that had a definite influence on my political beliefs.

    To answer your question, I would call myself a Conservative with some Libertarian leanings. Not a complete Libertarian, though.
    What do you see as the differences in your ideology?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    The Conservative I believe in is much more fundamental to what this country was founded on; conserving freedom. I see Libertarians as they only real Conservative political party right now (although that is changing with other parties also).

    People who believe they have a right to any control over other people who are causing them no harm, and call themselves Conservative, are selfish hypocrites. They are not concerned about the values of this country, they only want to feel superior to anyone else they can. We saw it with the oppression of women, then blacks, then Indians, now gays, and to some extent Latinos. Like all of those groups, what is right will eventually win and gays will have their freedoms.
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Ok... so what you are saying is there is no conflict. Since conservatives believe in traditional social values, when those values are attacked, using government to keep those values intact is NOT supporting government intrusion into an individual's lives. It supports the traditional values. Would this be correct?
    In a sense, when it's GOV'T that must... regulate the behavior. In this case, legal marriages. See what I mean? Now if there was a push to outlaw homosexuality, I'd be 110% in the streets against that.

    Also, I'd like to point out, what recourse do those that believe Marriage is between a man and a woman, when others want that changed? Just do nothing as Dan suggests? That's awfully silly.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    What do you see as the differences in your ideology?
    I believe strongly in a strict interpretation of the Constitution. That has always been the traditional definition of Conservatism. That some people today, who call themselves Conservative, are attempting to blur that line doesn't change it, nor does it make them Conservative.
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In a sense, when it's GOV'T that must... regulate the behavior. In this case, legal marriages. See what I mean? Now if there was a push to outlaw homosexuality, I'd be 110% in the streets against that.

    Also, I'd like to point out, what recourse do those that believe Marriage is between a man and a woman, when others want that changed? Just do nothing as Dan suggests? That's awfully silly.
    OK... I can understand that. And that seems to be a difference between your brand of conservatism and the brand I hear from libertarians. Your brand seems to be more active. Would you say that is correct?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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