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Thread: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

  1. #31
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Hey for once your right there is more to Conservativism than supposedly backing the Government thugs off people which in reality you dont do at all like the left you talk big but lie more than a used carsales man.

    There's Military Socialism, the US taxpayer for some reason has to protect that scum that litter Europe, Latin America, Africia and the Middle East when in fact these people can pay for their own defense

    Police Jackbootism, the excellent mentality that the pussies in blue are always right and when a tragety happens the simple answer to give the same scumbags even more power. Granted you share this with the left, but the blue colored punks generally hate the left. If you dont believe me just look at that wonderful cadre of thugs that is the TSA. I found a nice Lew Rockwell article on this group of morons

    Our Stupid State Transportation Security by Drew Hjelm
    It'd be easier to take you seriously, if you didn't post like a 13 year old child trying to sound tough with big words he learned in English class last week.

    "Thugs, Punks, Pussies, Jackbootism"

    You have this UNHOLY hate towards police, and I'm sorry Chevy, but a country with no police would be far worse then the simply IMAGINARY police-state Gov't Thug ruled world you seem think exists today.

    The average Police officer, TSA worker, FBI agent are just good honest people that want to protect society and the people they love. You cast them as Nazi SS Goons, mindless thugs out to destroy all that oppose them. It's... comical reading your hate. Hell you sound like a KKK'r from the 30's only about Police instead of blacks!

    YES, there are stupid laws, is that the fault of those entrusted with enforcing them?

    YES, there are BAD COPS that screw up, make mistakes or are corrupt. Guess what, that's a side effect of this thing called "Life".

    You waste so much energy, so much emotion, so much misguided hate... that one wonders if it's just an act or do you really think this way?

    I AGREE with 90% of the things you post, but on this... you are no better then the people that call members of the Armed Forces "Baby Killers". And I cannot respect someone like that, and I bet'cha I ain't the only that holds you in such... a manner. The difference between me and some others is, I'll tell you straight up, and believe you can step away from this destructive behavior, cause you are RIGHT more often then not on a lot of things.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And you know what? Olsen is 100% correct. Conservatism argues for limited government, and greater individual freedom.
    To the posters attacking your viewpoint: being a conservative looked up to by liberal posters is not a bad thing. Real liberals don't just respect conservatives who agree with us, we respect conservatives who make sense and are consistent. Paul Wellstone was enormously respected by conservatives for being passionate and sensible, and he reciprocated that respect for Republicans who showed the same sensibility and passion, regardless of how much their ideologies clashed. I can't imagine being a person who thinks that it's a bad thing for your opponents to respect you. America was founded on people who disagreed working together. We were split in the 18th century when we decided to fight for our independence, we were split between Hamilton's Federalists and Jefferson's Republicans, we were split between the gold standard and free silver.

    Now the Republicans refuse to work with Democrats, and that's just plain wrong... even though Reid and Pelosi's Democrats are annoying as hell. They don't fight for what they believe in. But classic liberalism will, hopefully, be restored, and real conservatives who want to conserve the constitution rather than their seat in Washington will follow suit -- or lead the charge even. It will probably get worse before it gets better. For now, you might be a real conservative but your viewpoint isn't in line with "real" Republicans.

    I haven't been a member here long, but MrVicchio's posts always strike me as a perfect representation of the mainstream Republican party: hypocritical, ignorant, vicious, and divisive. I suppose he'll take that as a compliment. He'd rather be wrong than respected by a liberal.
    Last edited by Mustachio; 08-10-10 at 05:41 AM.
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Hmmm... on the one side, I see a lot of consistency in what dan posted. However, I was always under the impression that conservatism represented traditional values... which would mean being against gay marriage. Also, I would think in todays world, Barry Goldwater would be considered a libertarian. Now, I am not a conservative, but cons some conservative explain to me the conflict between traditional social values and keeping government out of the individual's life? As far as I know, both seem to be conservative ideology.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Hmmm... on the one side, I see a lot of consistency in what dan posted. However, I was always under the impression that conservatism represented traditional values... which would mean being against gay marriage. Also, I would think in todays world, Barry Goldwater would be considered a libertarian. Now, I am not a conservative, but cons some conservative explain to me the conflict between traditional social values and keeping government out of the individual's life? As far as I know, both seem to be conservative ideology.
    It's really not that hard CC.

    Traditional Social Values like opposing "Gay Marriage" isn't using Big Government to push a moral value. That's a fallacious logical argument started by Progressive to undermine Conservatives in the political arena.

    Look at it like this, Conservatives believe in say, traditional marriage. A group, Lib/Prog comes along and wants to CHANGE that to encompass homosexuals. This can ONLY be done by having the Gov't issue "Marriage Licences". What are Conservatives to do? NOT push to keep Gov't, the entity that issues and thus ultimately legal acknowledges the legitimacy of such unions, from doing so?

    What recourse have they? The bumper sticker logic of "You're not a real conservative cause you want Gov't in people's lives" is patently dishonest, intellectually dishonest.

    My personal view on the matter is slightly more liberal on the matter, but I both UNDERSTAND why Conservatives feel the way they do, and support their methods. I fight Gay Marriage on principles. Get the people to accept it, not the courts, not force it through that way, in the mean time many on the right would support Civil Unions. I know it's stupid, same thing, different names, but to the right, the NAME DOES MATTER. SO why can't we as a society compromise here?
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Hmmm... on the one side, I see a lot of consistency in what dan posted. However, I was always under the impression that conservatism represented traditional values... which would mean being against gay marriage. Also, I would think in todays world, Barry Goldwater would be considered a libertarian. Now, I am not a conservative, but cons some conservative explain to me the conflict between traditional social values and keeping government out of the individual's life? As far as I know, both seem to be conservative ideology.
    Actually, I DO have social values. However, I recognize that it is not my place to force those values on others, nor is it the duty of the government to do the same. It is something that is in God's hands alone. What we have here is a group of people that wants to legislate morality. They are the ones pointing out the motes in other people's eyes, while ignoring the beam in their own eye. They are also the ones Christ was referring to when he said that there was a special place in hell, reserved just for the hypocrites.
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    IMO, Ted Olsen looks at conservatism much the same way Barry Goldwater, The Godfather of Conservatism, sees it.

    I long for the day when conservatism is no longer bastardized and splintered by the disgruntled and angry "social conservatives" that are constantly whining and the good name of real conservative's has been restored. But with today's divisive media telling all the dittoheads how to think, I don't see it happening anytime too soon.

    Just an opinion.
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, I DO have social values. However, I recognize that it is not my place to force those values on others, nor is it the duty of the government to do the same. It is something that is in God's hands alone. What we have here is a group of people that wants to legislate morality. They are the ones pointing out the motes in other people's eyes, while ignoring the beam in their own eye. They are also the ones Christ was referring to when he said that there was a special place in hell, reserved just for the hypocrites.
    There isn't a soul on Earth that isn't hypocritical at one time or another.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  8. #38
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Now, I am not a conservative, but cons some conservative explain to me the conflict between traditional social values and keeping government out of the individual's life?
    I don't think there is a conflict, cap.

    Personally, I feel that believing in traditional social values does not mean the same thing as campaigning for traditional social values to be enforced throughout society.

    For me, the first rule of conservative ideology is that when one seeks to promote a certain type of belief system, they do so through personal action and strict adherence to their own value system.

    I have no doubt that many people here would say I'm a "social liberal", but I feel that I embody traditional social values in my everyday life. I just don't believe it is the government's job to enforce these values, nor is it my job to demonize those who do not live by these values.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Hmmm... on the one side, I see a lot of consistency in what dan posted. However, I was always under the impression that conservatism represented traditional values... which would mean being against gay marriage. Also, I would think in todays world, Barry Goldwater would be considered a libertarian. Now, I am not a conservative, but cons some conservative explain to me the conflict between traditional social values and keeping government out of the individual's life? As far as I know, both seem to be conservative ideology.
    Dan put it nicely below Cap, but I'll try to explain things as I see them. I'm a conservative who has a specific moral code that I follow, but I am a true conservative or rather classic liberal. No matter what I personally feel I follow the constitution first and foremost and that trumps any other agendas(well, it should anyway). That being said I don't see any compelling interest in government regulation of marriage on the religious level since that is a recognized right within our founding document, if we're being honest any civil unions including secular marriage would have to fall under equal protections so government technically still wouldn't have the right to discriminate. All of that trumps any religious views I may have as I believe that standing up for something I don't believe in protects my own rights(I'm neutral on gay marriage).

    I think that a lot of people including some conservatives have a narrow view of conservatism and much of that has to do with the religious right taking over the movement and the RINOs as well. Conservatism is relatively flexible and has a very broad spectrum of views with one being more predominantly presented and unfortunately the most rigid one is the one most see.

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, I DO have social values. However, I recognize that it is not my place to force those values on others, nor is it the duty of the government to do the same. It is something that is in God's hands alone. What we have here is a group of people that wants to legislate morality. They are the ones pointing out the motes in other people's eyes, while ignoring the beam in their own eye. They are also the ones Christ was referring to when he said that there was a special place in hell, reserved just for the hypocrites.
    Nailed it!
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 08-10-10 at 12:23 PM.
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, I DO have social values. However, I recognize that it is not my place to force those values on others, nor is it the duty of the government to do the same. It is something that is in God's hands alone. What we have here is a group of people that wants to legislate morality. They are the ones pointing out the motes in other people's eyes, while ignoring the beam in their own eye. They are also the ones Christ was referring to when he said that there was a special place in hell, reserved just for the hypocrites.
    WTF EVER.

    You're the type of "Conservative" that doesn't stand up for what you believe in, because "oh if I do that, why they won't LIKE me for "Forcing my VIEWS" on them"

    Such poppycock.

    What the hell are they doing pushing Gay Marriage? They are FORCING a morality, so it's... okay for them too cause they are liberals, but Conservatives cannot fight for what they believe in because it's "forcing"? Might as well not VOTE dan, ever. Cause by VOTING you are using political power, to influence society through choosing Politicians whom will make laws and regulations. In effect, by voting, YOU are forcing your views on others.

    I don't have much respect for people that think standing up for what they believe is good and right is somehow wrong. Our FOUNDERS forced their view of Morality on the Colonies by FORCING the issue of Independence. Were they hypocrites? Were they somehow wrong?

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