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Thread: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

  1. #21
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    There is more to being a Conservative then just backing Gov't laying off people Dan. But hey, you want to be the number Conservative in the liberal posters eyes... be my guest. I heard you were seen at a Bill White rally...

    Gay Marriage attacks the foundation of the Institution, and that's why the American People, whenever given the chance have rejected it out right. It's taken court cases to pass it. Most Conservatives have no problem with CIVIL UNIONS, because that more accurately identifies the union. But oh no, that's SO EVIL. I'm all for Gays having full legal rights, quit trying to change Marriage to mean Adam and Steve and running through the courts to force that on society. And yes, as soon as Gay Marriage is legalized, Bob will want to marry in too, so it'll be Bob Steve and Adam getting married. Wonder if you'll post a thread saying a TRUE Conservative backs this because it's not the Gov't's place to judge the conduct and love of the citizenry.

    Spare us Dan, you're as Conservative as Arlen Specter or Olympia Snowe. That's why the only people that seem to call you are real conservative are liberals.. they know you're a patsy for their beliefs. This thread is more proof. I don't care how "Conservative" Ted Olsen's creds make him, he can still be WRONG. Newt and Palin could come out in favor of Gay Marriage and I'd say they were both wrong. Until the PEOPLE support changing the definition of Marriage, forcing Gay Marriage through the courts is morally reprehensible. (But denying Civil Unions with full legal bennies is also just as evil).

    Quit trying to push your "Social Values Free" Conservatism as some sort of "Real Conservative" value, it ain't. It's morally devoid of value.
    There is more to being a Conservative than paying lip service to Conservatism. That is what the real fakes do. They cry Conservatism, then they want the Government to step in.

    1) Real Conservatism means leaving the decision for abortion up to the states, as per the 10th Amendment. Fake Conservatives want to dictate abortion law to all 50 states. To me this is not any different than Liberals who want to force all 50 states to make abortion on demand available.

    2) Real Conservatives don't tell others how immoral they are, while at the same time, get caught having homosexual affairs.

    3) Real Conservatives are against Federal spending, not only when Obama is in power, but when Bush was in power too.

    4) Real Conservatives are not abject hypocrites.

    5) A real Conservative's hero is Ronald Reagan, or Barry Goldwater, or William F. Buckley. A fake Conservative's idol is Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck.

    6) A real Conservative does believe in social values, but at the same time, recognizes that it is not the government's place to piously and self-righteously dictate those values to others. A real Conservative recognizes that God has the final say, not a collection of men who call themselves a government.

    7) A real Conservative does not believe in bailouts for failing companies. A fake Conservative does not believe in bailouts for failing companies, unless the company is failing during the Bush administration.

    8) A real Conservative has Tea Parties. A fake Conservative has the Tea Party Express.

    9) A real Conservative loves America, and all it stands for. A fake Conservative loves America except where it stands for things he does not believe in.

    10) A real Conservative holds to Conservative values his whole life. A fake Conservative is much like a Liberal on steroids, when it suits his political purposes.

    Top 10 bonus

    11) A real Conservative in Texas will vote for Bill White, not because he is a Democrat, but because Rick Perry is a Socialist of the worst kind, and not a Conservative in any way, shape, or form. A fake Conservative will vote for Rick Perry because he has an "R" after his name, and for no other reason.
    Last edited by danarhea; 08-09-10 at 05:33 PM.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    If "conservatives" really believe in small government they would not be seeking big government in the social arena.
    Like you have the first clue what Conservatives want...

    Keeping Marriage between a man and a woman isn't big government, it's society keeping traditional standards, nothing more, nothing less. Nice try, thanks for playing but
    Better Living Through Regulation - DNC



  3. #23
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Like you have the first clue what Conservatives want...

    Keeping Marriage between a man and a woman isn't big government, it's society keeping traditional standards, nothing more, nothing less. Nice try, thanks for playing but
    So they don't want smaller government in our personal lives?

  4. #24
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Like you have the first clue what Conservatives want...

    Keeping Marriage between a man and a woman isn't big government, it's society keeping traditional standards, nothing more, nothing less. Nice try, thanks for playing but
    It's big government. That's it. You believe that government can tell people who they can and cannot marry. We believe that people should have the freedom to marry the individual they choose to as long as both are consenting adults.

    You believe that government should get in between a woman and her doctor and should dictate whom people should marry.

    It's big government. You've just been convinced that it isn't by the partisans.

    Barry Goldwater - the founder of the modern Conservative movement - was for keeping government out of people's relationships.

    Read up on him. He's someone to be proud of.

    Washingtonpost.com: Goldwater Speech

    And he would heap scorn on what the conservative movement has become (in fact, he did before he died).

  5. #25
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    There is more to being a Conservative than paying lip service to Conservatism. That is what the real fakes do. They cry Conservatism, then they want the Government to step in.
    Yeah, that's me, wanting gov't to step in Let's break you down and eat you for breakfast.


    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    1) Real Conservatism means leaving the decision for abortion up to the states, as per the 10th Amendment. Fake Conservatives want to dictate abortion law to all 50 states. To me this is not any different than Liberals who want to force all 50 states to make abortion on demand available.
    Most Conservatives, like all I know and consider good conservatives WANT the decision decided by the individual states. So you seem to have no real point here. Or are you saying that most Conservatives want a blanket ban nationwide? Cause if you claim that... you're just parroting the Lefty fear mongering that Conservatives want to ban abortion outright. Gee... I think I see the start of a trend here.

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    2) Real Conservatives don't tell others how immoral they are, while at the same time, get caught having homosexual affairs.
    You mean decent folks don't do the "Do as I say not as I do" crap? Well there is a no brainer! Also note when a "Conservative" is caught doing such, they get booted out of office... Dem's get re-elected... Again fail to see your point here. Just making some lame blanket hit on Republicans for the scandals of a few members... did you get that from Huffpo?

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    3) Real Conservatives are against Federal spending, not only when Obama is in power, but when Bush was in power too.
    And most of us WERE, why do you think 2006 and 2008 happened? Bush and the GOP Leadership depressed the base and ran us off. Again, you are making some lame blanket commentary to make yourself appear to be even handed and wise... you're spouting both common sense and what most Conservatives agree with... you haven't made a point here.

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    4) Real Conservatives are not abject hypocrites.
    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    5) A real Conservative's hero is Ronald Reagan, or Barry Goldwater, or William F. Buckley. A fake Conservative's idol is Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck.
    LOL. SO you cannot hold Reagan as an Icon, and listen to Rush, Hannity or Beck. Here's a hint Dan, "Real Conservatives" reject pandering folks liek you telling them who to believe and listen too... don't believe me? Jsut ask this guy why he lost his primary by 42%
    Right Now - Why did Rep. Bob Inglis lose by 42 points?
    First Read - GOP watch: Inglis blames Palin and Beck

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    6) A real Conservative does believe in social values, but at the same time, recognizes that it is not the government's place to piously and self-righteously dictate those values to others. A real Conservative recognizes that God has the final say, not a collection of men who call themselves a government.
    Ahh the old "Those fake conservatives want to establish a theocracy" line of attack. So instead of being proud of having, and supporting moral values they believe in, "real Conservatives" should be ashamed of EVER suggesting that their beliefs should have any place in local, state or federal Gov't. There is a term for folks like you, Blue Blood Republican. You sound an AWFUL lot like them.

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    7) A real Conservative does not believe in bailouts for failing companies. A fake Conservative does not believe in bailouts for failing companies, unless the company is failing during the Bush administration.
    How many "Conservatives" backed the bailouts on this forum? Few to none. Who are you rallying against here buddy?

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    8) A real Conservative has Tea Parties. A fake Conservative has the Tea Party Express.
    Yeah, outrage at big gov't is SO wrong. How dare anyone that attends these rally's call themselves "conservative"!?!? REAL Conservatives don't let their voices be heard, or get excited. No they remain calm, and look for bi-partisan reach across the isle compromise on all issues...

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    9) A real Conservative loves America, and all it stands for. A fake Conservative loves America except where it stands for things he does not believe in.
    So a REAL Conservative backs anything and everything they are against they love too eh? So they have no real values, just peace love and dope man!
    The only "conservatives" that do crap like this are the idiots like the Westboro Baptist Church fools.

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    10) A real Conservative holds to Conservative values his whole life. A fake Conservative is much like a Liberal on steroids, when it suits his political purposes.
    A "real Conservative" doesn't let his personal views influence his political views, GOT IT! So why should a "real" conservative even vote? After all his "Values" might influence his political views and we Just CAN'T HAVE THAT.

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Top 10 bonus

    11) A real Conservative in Texas will vote for Bill White, not because he is a Democrat, but because Rick Perry is a Socialist of the worst kind, and not a Conservative in any way, shape, or form. A fake Conservative will vote for Rick Perry because he has an "R" after his name, and for no other reason.
    Question: Why should anyone VOTE for White? Just because Perry sucks? At least we know our "Real Conservative" will vote Democrat...

    Shocking really.

    Almost all of your commentary is hallow, pointless, you might as well said "A REAL Conservative doesn't eat Lime Jello", it would have been just as meaningful.

    Here's a more accurate list of "Conservative Values".

    1. Loves America, and Loves the Constitution.

    2. Government only as big as is NEEDED to fulfill Gov'ts Constitutional Obligations.

    3. Isn't ashamed of his Personal and Moral Values, and uses them to GUIDE his decisions in life. (that includes voting for those of you in Rio Linda)

    4. Can listen to Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh and appreciate the humor of the entertainment and glean information from it at the same time. (And turns up the volume around co-workers to help educate them too)

    5. Doesn't backdown or run from his beliefs because some people may not like him...


    Bonus!

    Doesn't vote for a liberal just cause the GOP choice is imperfect without cause, Bill White is a big Government guy. Does that make.. Dan a Hypocrite?

    Rick Perry is somewhat corrupt and kind of a dick sometimes, Bill White BELIEVES in the power of Gov't. I'll go against the BIG Gov't any day.
    Better Living Through Regulation - DNC



  6. #26
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    This whole argument is bittersweet on my end. I don't think any government should have domain over sanctified marriage, however if they want to offer a secular version that is perfectly fine. This being said if a religion wants to perform a gay marriage or exclude it then that should be their perogative and theirs alone, if the state offers a secular union then it obviously must be available to any consenting adults regardless of their orientation in keeping with the equal protections clause of the constitution. With the argumentation involving government interference as a core issue on both idealogical ends though you have government expansion of power outside of it's proper perameters either way......so how about just get the government out of the issue and be done with it?
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    This whole argument is bittersweet on my end. I don't think any government should have domain over sanctified marriage, however if they want to offer a secular version that is perfectly fine. This being said if a religion wants to perform a gay marriage or exclude it then that should be their perogative and theirs alone, if the state offers a secular union then it obviously must be available to any consenting adults regardless of their orientation in keeping with the equal protections clause of the constitution. With the argumentation involving government interference as a core issue on both idealogical ends though you have government expansion of power outside of it's proper perameters either way......so how about just get the government out of the issue and be done with it?
    All government marriage is secular. It's just that they allow churches to administer them. Many churches already sanction gay unions, so it would have little to do with churches.

    Keep in mind, any church can deny any couple the right to marry in their church. This would not change a thing.

  8. #28
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    It's big government. That's it. You believe that government can tell people who they can and cannot marry. We believe that people should have the freedom to marry the individual they choose to as long as both are consenting adults.

    You believe that government should get in between a woman and her doctor and should dictate whom people should marry.

    It's big government. You've just been convinced that it isn't by the partisans.

    Barry Goldwater - the founder of the modern Conservative movement - was for keeping government out of people's relationships.

    Read up on him. He's someone to be proud of.

    Washingtonpost.com: Goldwater Speech

    And he would heap scorn on what the conservative movement has become (in fact, he did before he died).
    See you have a failure to understand the difference between "big Government" and people having Social and Moral Values they seek to maintain.

    This is a false choice presented by Progressives to try and get Conservatives to be ashamed of their stances and to stop supporting those values publicly.

    Sorry buddy, I'm not so easily cowed by weak arguments from those whose only GOAL is to push THEIR moral values on me unimpeded.
    Better Living Through Regulation - DNC



  9. #29
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    All government marriage is secular. It's just that they allow churches to administer them. Many churches already sanction gay unions, so it would have little to do with churches.
    Actually no. While government has hijacked dominion over marriage over the years(I will concede currently you are correct) marriage has historically been a religious matter. Where government decided to intervene was about money, pure and simple. They can make money on the license and dictate the tax rules so therefore granted themselves authority. I have a problem with that and would prefer that if our government wants to get in the union business that they leave all church affairs alone.

    Keep in mind, any church can deny any couple the right to marry in their church. This would not change a thing.
    And that is how it should be. Then again there are extremist groups that would harrass churches for not getting on board but I can't blame moderates for that.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 08-09-10 at 06:49 PM.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    There is more to being a Conservative then just backing Gov't laying off people Dan.

    Hey for once your right there is more to Conservativism than supposedly backing the Government thugs off people which in reality you dont do at all like the left you talk big but lie more than a used carsales man.

    There's Military Socialism, the US taxpayer for some reason has to protect that scum that litter Europe, Latin America, Africia and the Middle East when in fact these people can pay for their own defense

    Police Jackbootism, the excellent mentality that the pussies in blue are always right and when a tragety happens the simple answer to give the same scumbags even more power. Granted you share this with the left, but the blue colored punks generally hate the left. If you dont believe me just look at that wonderful cadre of thugs that is the TSA. I found a nice Lew Rockwell article on this group of morons

    Our Stupid State Transportation Security by Drew Hjelm
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