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Thread: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

  1. #211
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    No, as a whole, there is partial fertility for opposite sex couples. Don't try to weasel words.
    As a whole there is innate fertility for opposite sex couples. Indiviudally, fertility may crop up, but as a whole, the vast majority of couples are fertile.



    1. There is fertility regardless of whether or not there is marriage.
    Oh christ. Reread post 113. I already pointed out that this asinine bull**** doesn't help your cause.


    2. Same sex couples are not fertile but they can still raise children.
    Good. Focus on that fact as the basis for SSM arguments. It's the only way to address the SSM opponents arguments effectively without falling prey to the poor debate choices I outlined in post 113.

    3. If you want to make the argument that fertility is essential to having children that anyone can raise, then make that argument, not a weasel post.
    Reread post 113.

    4. If the state has an interest in using marriage to promote fertility, then it should deny infertile opposite sex couples that right.
    Where the **** did you get the idea of "promote fertility"? It's about raising children. Fertility is simply the basis being used for the man + woman definition of marriage.

    Promoting stable homes for children.
    DING! DING! DING! Arguments that indicate that this is the main impetus for seeking legalization of SSM will utterly destory the opposition's arguments. My entire point was to show that this is where the debate should be focussed.
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  2. #212
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    DING! DING! DING! Arguments that indicate that this is the main impetus for seeking legalization of SSM will utterly destory the opposition's arguments. My entire point was to show that this is where the debate should be focussed.
    Frankly I could care less. Arguing that marriage is about providing stable homes for children is not a Constitutional argument for same sex marriage. Arguing that imposing a definition of marriage that does not include same sex unons is unfounded gender discrimination because same sex couples are only different from opposite sex couples in that they are not fertile and the state has no interest in legislating on the basis of fertility is a Constitutional argument.

  3. #213
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Frankly I could care less. Arguing that marriage is about providing stable homes for children is not a Constitutional argument for same sex marriage.
    And that's where your argument fails and acts as a hindrance the SSM side both in public opinion and potentially in the Supreme court.

    The only way to really prove that equal protection is violated is by showing that SSM has the same ultimate goal of OSM. This is because it cannot be argued that the State's interest in marriage is not the raising of children in a stable environment.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  4. #214
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    And that's where your argument fails and acts as a hindrance the SSM side both in public opinion and potentially in the Supreme court.

    The only way to really prove that equal protection is violated is by showing that SSM has the same ultimate goal of OSM. This is because it cannot be argued that the State's interest in marriage is not the raising of children in a stable environment.
    As I stated in the other thread.

    We are only debating about what makes the best argument.

    I stand by my argument that the state has no interest in discriminating against same sex couples when it comes to marriage on the basis of fertility.

    You can stand by your argument that marriage is about raising children and same sex couples raise kids just as well as opposite sex couples.

    I see my argument as a better Constitutional argument as the Equal Protection Clause and levels of scrutiny do not allow discrimination on the basis of sex unless it is based on a legitimate state interest. Fertility is clearly not a legitimate state interest because opposite sex couples are not denied marriage if they are infertile. I cannot see how your argument is a Constitutional argument.

  5. #215
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    I would argue that requiring fertility tests for people to get married would not be a violation of the 4th. Some states require blood tests to get married, and if that is legal, surely a fertility test would be too.

    Marriage Laws in the US - Blood Tests
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