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Thread: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

  1. #11
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    There is more to being a Conservative then just backing Gov't laying off people Dan. But hey, you want to be the number Conservative in the liberal posters eyes... be my guest. I heard you were seen at a Bill White rally...

    Gay Marriage attacks the foundation of the Institution, and that's why the American People, whenever given the chance have rejected it out right. It's taken court cases to pass it. Most Conservatives have no problem with CIVIL UNIONS, because that more accurately identifies the union. But oh no, that's SO EVIL. I'm all for Gays having full legal rights, quit trying to change Marriage to mean Adam and Steve and running through the courts to force that on society. And yes, as soon as Gay Marriage is legalized, Bob will want to marry in too, so it'll be Bob Steve and Adam getting married. Wonder if you'll post a thread saying a TRUE Conservative backs this because it's not the Gov't's place to judge the conduct and love of the citizenry.

    Spare us Dan, you're as Conservative as Arlen Specter or Olympia Snowe. That's why the only people that seem to call you are real conservative are liberals.. they know you're a patsy for their beliefs. This thread is more proof. I don't care how "Conservative" Ted Olsen's creds make him, he can still be WRONG. Newt and Palin could come out in favor of Gay Marriage and I'd say they were both wrong. Until the PEOPLE support changing the definition of Marriage, forcing Gay Marriage through the courts is morally reprehensible. (But denying Civil Unions with full legal bennies is also just as evil).

    Quit trying to push your "Social Values Free" Conservatism as some sort of "Real Conservative" value, it ain't. It's morally devoid of value.
    Why is pushing it through the courts so "evil"? Should interracial couples have waited for the voting public to let them get married? The courts are there to make sure the majority doesn't run roughshod over the rights of the minority. You have no more right to vote on mine and Mike's marriage than I would to vote on you and your wife's. If the court doesn't get to weigh in on issues that come down to the very definition of who a right covers, then we may as well scrap the courts and revert to pure democracy.
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    I'd like to see the government stay out of "marriage" all together. The states should issue civil unions to all couples.
    “The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Why is pushing it through the courts so "evil"? Should interracial couples have waited for the voting public to let them get married? The courts are there to make sure the majority doesn't run roughshod over the rights of the minority. You have no more right to vote on mine and Mike's marriage than I would to vote on you and your wife's. If the court doesn't get to weigh in on issues that come down to the very definition of who a right covers, then we may as well scrap the courts and revert to pure democracy.
    Nice strawman, "Scrap the courts and revert to pure democracy lol!"

    Bugger off that bud.

    The point is, the people, that's the majority of Americans hold the Institution of Marriage as having a defined meaning. It harms no one to maintain this and causes a huge amount of unrest and anger by doing so.

    I'd be on your side, if there wasn't a viable, legal alternative that granted all the legal and civil benefits as Marriage, but there is. Civil Unions. If the real goal of the Gay Agenda were those legal rights... but they want to force their views on all. And that's wrong. It's wrong going through the courts BECAUSE there is this viable alternative. It's... dishonest, and thus my stance.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And you know what? Olsen is 100% correct. Conservatism argues for limited government, and greater individual freedom.

    Now, I know that a few in here are going to go off on a tirade and start calling me a fake Conservative again, so let me pose the following question: Which is more Conservative? That the government should get off the backs of the people, or that the government should get off the backs of the people, except where it should be on the backs of the people in cases where I don't agree with something? Think about it. Many who claim to be Conservatives simply are not who they say they are. And, of course, they are always the first to accuse others of not being Conservative. You can say "He who smelt it dealt it".

    DanaRhea's law of Conservatism - The term "Social Conservatism" is an oxymoron.

    BTW, before you call Ted Olsen a fake Conservative, you should know that he is the one who successfully argued before the Supreme Court the Bush side of Bush v. Gore in 2000. His Conservative credentials are beyond question. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

    Article is here.
    The reason why this is a strong problem for many is that "Republican" is synonymous with "Conservative" - when these two don't actually mesh fully.

    In fact, all too often the ideologies and political platforms are confused - leaving many frustrated and lost.
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Nice strawman, "Scrap the courts and revert to pure democracy lol!"

    Bugger off that bud.
    If you expect the courts to be subservient to the whims of the voters, that's essentially what you're advocating.

    The point is, the people, that's the majority of Americans hold the Institution of Marriage as having a defined meaning. It harms no one to maintain this and causes a huge amount of unrest and anger by doing so.
    It causes a huge amount of unrest and anger by denying people the right to marry, and granting that right to same sex couples does not affect straight couples in any meaningful way. They can hold the institution to mean whatever they want, they can say to themselves "adam and steve aren't REALLY married", but it doesn't change the fact that they are denying people a right that they themselves hold.

    I'd be on your side, if there wasn't a viable, legal alternative that granted all the legal and civil benefits as Marriage, but there is. Civil Unions. If the real goal of the Gay Agenda were those legal rights... but they want to force their views on all. And that's wrong. It's wrong going through the courts BECAUSE there is this viable alternative. It's... dishonest, and thus my stance.
    Except civil union ISN'T marriage. It's a different institution. Not to mention, civil union doesn't always give all those legal rights anyways. It wasn't wrong for interracial couples to go through the courts, and its not wrong when gay couples are having their 14th amendment right denied
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    I'd like to see the government stay out of "marriage" all together. The states should issue civil unions to all couples.
    Why not just nuke all benefits associated with marriage?
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    No, gay marriage is not a conservative value. Conservatives believe in certain values--one of them is the traditional family. That family is comprised of a man, a woman, and typically several kids. Saying that two men or two women can get married, adopt a few kids and have that same family is an affront to conservative values.

    By the way, we don't want to deprive gays of any rights. We want gays to have the same marriage rights as anyone else--namely, the right to marry an adult member of the opposite sex.
    The father of your movement would likely disagree with you.

    Barry Goldwater on the Military Ban

    True conservatives believe in freedom, liberty, and equality.

    Only religous-based conservatives who wish to force their religion on everyone as law believe in restricting the freedoms of others in pursuit of their goals.

    It's just "big government" used against non-Christians.
    Last edited by FilmFestGuy; 08-09-10 at 04:11 PM.

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    If "conservatives" really believe in small government they would not be seeking big government in the social arena.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    The father of your movement would likely disagree with you.

    Barry Goldwater on the Military Ban

    True conservatives believe in freedom, liberty, and equality.

    Only religous-based conservatives who wish to force their religion on everyone as law believe in restricting the freedoms of others in pursuit of their goals.

    It's just "big government" used against non-Christians.
    You are 100% correct.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Until the PEOPLE support changing the definition of Marriage, forcing Gay Marriage through the courts is morally reprehensible. (But denying Civil Unions with full legal bennies is also just as evil).
    True conservatives understand that US Constitutional rights are not to be put to a vote. The will of the people is the United State Constitution, not a ballot measure passed in any state. And until a federal amendment is attached to the US Constitution defining marriage as between a man and a woman, then it is the responsibility of our independent judiciary to uphold our Federal Constitution. And if our independent judiciary determines that the people of a state violated the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution by discriminating against gender by passing a law prohibiting same sex marriage, then our independent judiciary is obligated to strike down that law in order to defend the will of the people, the US Constitution, and to protect the Constitutional rights of the people.

    Why don't "real" conservatives like you get that simple fact?
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 08-09-10 at 05:42 PM.

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